Pen and Paper works, by the way!

Not always. I've written an example above for this. Here is a copy:

'' yesterday I did a thieves' guild quest (I wont spoil it) and the quest giver was first at location A and upon completing the quest he was at location B. This was a scripted location change and he wasnt walking around, the quest just continued somewhere else. Without the quest marker on I would have never found him. ''

As you can understand the quest-giver never said to meet me at location B, and the journal also didnt mention it. Bethesda relied on the quest-marker to guide players to location B. I have actually tried pen & paper (....digital version that is, on my phone) but it isn't enough. Right now the quest-marker isnt optional, not really. Small changes to quest-descriptions could make it optional. Little investment on Bethesda's side, large enjoyment on mine (as well as many others it seems, based on the responses).

I hate the quest marker crap. I do without it. I`ve had a similar problem, but just search until I find him or leave it and do something else until later.

But in most cases the pen and paper is very good at reminding where you need to be and why you`re doing what you`re doing instead of mindlessly going from X to Y back to X for cheese like a Lab rat.

Yes please. This dumbing down to "follow the marker" with 2 word description is just terrible.

Funny looking through my mis quest section almost all of them have the name of a specific location on them.

Most cases perhaps but it is a hassle, and a solution is easy: add a few more sentences to the quest description. If you don't want to use them and prefer your own notes than nothing changes for you, but for me it would make the game much better.


Really? Because I'm having a totally difference experience. Have you tried playing the game without the quest-marker and by just reading the description? It often fails to mention who gave the quest as well as directions to the location. What also would have been nice is a little motivation as to why you're doing it. Some quests are in my journal for 10+ hours before I get around to doing them. It would help to know what it was about. I'm not saying all quests are this bad, but obvisouly Bethesda opted for the 'less is more' attitude. It might make the logbook very clean, but it isnt helpful to my playstyle. I'm not asking for them to add flying mounts or spears, just a few more sentences in the next TES game. They could hide them in a dropdown menu if they fear too much words will make their games unappealing to others.

Yes I have, I read the quest description, look at the named place it tells me to go, open up my map and find it, then walk there. Also I do every quest as I get them, or at least ill pick up like 5 in one area then go do those so I know were to return to.



Beyond that directions would be terrible, Morrowind shows giving directions in a RPG is just a TERRIBLE idea

Morrowind NPC "ohh yes its west of X and south of Y" when its really "five times more west of X then it is south of Y"

I would never want to go back to Morrowd's vauge direction BS. Spending half an hour looking for a place becuase NPCs dont give good directions isnt fun.

That is utter nonsence.

There are no faulty directions in Morrowind, they are clear and accurate.
There are only two instances in the entire game where the directions are vague or incorrect.
One is a Daedric quest and supposed to be hard.
The other is a typo.

And as it comes to directions, yes please.
Nothing worse than the way it is now, a game of follow the arrow.

That is utter nonsence becuase most if not all of Morrowinds directions are simple its south of X and west of Y.

When Morrowind came out people complained about the directions being vauge, that is why they added quest markers in Oblivion. In fact the vauge quest directions were one of the most complained about featurs of Morrowind.

You CANNOT say you found that milk cave or w/e it was called soley on the directions they gave you.

I can and I do.
There are no vague directions in Morrowind.
I got the game years before I had internet and I never had to look anything up.

People complained about the Dwemer puzzle box.
Not very smart people then.
In any game, where is the item? Thats right, with the boss.
Where is the box? In the same room as Boss Crito.
Boy, thats hard.

You cannot have quest directions as the quest locations are random.
You cannot have descriptions of miscellaneous quests because miscellaneous quests have no visible log text and several quest instances may be present simultanously.

Also, I almost always had to use CS in Morrowind to actually locate the places referred, as the descriptions were delusional. Unless you had a large golden square marker on your map.

Yep a big ass room with lots of and one TINY ass box.

Please, most people missed the box becuase it was so small it was almost impossible to see.




This is a valid point I had not thought of.

Oh come on, now youre just arguing for the hell of it.
It wasnt a big room.
The box wasnt hard to find.

Not all of the quests are random, regardless of wht Bethesda may have led you to believe. Main quests are always in the same dungeon, it's only a small proprtion of quests that are actually radient "The Horn of Jurgen Windcaller" for example is always going to take place in that same dungeon because that dungeon was designed for it, therefore directions are entirely possible

No I am making a valid point based on the collective experiance of most Morrowindusers which was most had a hard time finding it because it was so small.

The only person I see arguing for the hell of it is you b trying to act like you such hot [censored] while everyone else who doesnt meet your standards is dumb.




Most main quests are actually detailed in directions comparitivly.

Also just about every sidequest has about 5 diffrent locations it can be in.

Stop the barrow icon revealing on your map on quest start.
Add the barrow location to corresponding quest stage.

You can perfectly make all these changes for storyline quests yourself. Stop complaining.

Well if you gleam that from my posts I would assume some prior inferiority complex is at work here, cause Im really not superhumanly clever and do not make myself out to be such.
Please do not pull the 'elitist' card. Few things annoy me more.

It implies using your brain is a bad thing, it implies that the most blissfull state imaginable is one of stupidity and it implies a 'crab bucket' mentality.*

Yes, I am an elitist and Im proud to be one.
Better than being content with being mediocre or sub-par.

*Crab bucket mentality:
When you have a bucket full of crabs you do not need a lid to keep them in. When a crab tries to climb out, other crabs will grab it and pull it down again. Its just how crabs are.
In a human society a crab bucket mentality means the type of mentality that for instance jeers and bullies someone in a low-income area who tries to make a better life for himself by hard work and study. Peer pressure to just give up and stay in the crab bucket.

This ^

Which is pretty sad, I enjoy games from independant developers, but from a mainstream console developer like Bethesda, you will not get anything like this anymore

In all of your supposed efforts to not try to make yourself look clever you seem to love putting down people by calling them stupid or dumb becuase they are not as good as you.


Beyond that your crab bucket mentality falls apart becuase of the fact the avarage human iq goes up every year. The avarge person now is 20 iq points smarter then the avarge person of the same age 10 years ago. The crab bucket mentality only works if humans hold eachother down preventing any sort of progress which is untrue.

Agreed. I`d join in, but you seem to have the logic of it explained.



Great words and very true. Mentally saving for the future.

LordMakaan and Merari, please both of your opinions are vallid as they are your opinion. One finds that Morrowind's quest description was accurate the other didn't experience it as such. Do both of you really think you can change the other's opinion (that is based on years of hand-on experience)?

The entire point of this threads was to point out that we don't have to hold this argument. Fact is most quests in Skyrim aren't auto-generated. The main quest, the guild quests and most side quests (with the exception of those kill and fetch quests that you get from the Stewarts and taverns) are all scripted. Those quest descriptions could be better, for an example I like to point you to my other comment on this very page.

So Bethesda could simply improve this description without little efford, and I'm experiencing that this is important. If your playstyle doesn't require it than this is great, for you. But why would you be against making the game better for others as well? if they add a few lines than this does not diminish the way you play the game. So again the point is that Bethesda doesnt have to pick and choose, a few lines extra could make one of you happier and wouldn't effect the other's already superb enjoyment.

So again: we all benefit.

Its from Terry Pratchett, the book Unseen Academicals

The problem is that almost every quest, besdies the MQ OFC, has anywhere from 5-10 possible locations it could be at.

To reintroduce the directions system they want would invovle having the voice actions re-record the same line upwards of 10 times, which is both something that is totaly unessessary and takes up a lot of space on the disk leaving less room for more things.



Also no I dont think I could ever change his mind and I doubt he belives he can change mine or anyone elses. All arguments on the internet are pointless becuase the likelyhood of changing someones mind is nearly zero, however without them internet forums would be dead and very boring places to visit.

Really? I must read his books one day...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Quests

The majority of the quests (all the 'good ones') aren't radiant. I don't do those 'kill bandit chief at X' or 'fetch staff from Y' quests. So for all the actual quests and even a great deal of misc. quests they could improve the description.

And even the radiant quests could have a better explanation written down. It doesn't need to be recorded but they could explain who needs the staff and why. It would just add a little bit more personality to the quests.

EXAMPLE:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Miscellaneous_Quests This is the list of misc.quests and as you can see not all are radiant

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Delivery_(Hillevi) Here is a misc. fetch quests and you can see its description as well. The quest description could have included the reason as to why it is important to deliver this item as well as where the receiver lives. Even if this is radiant information than the radiant description could still include the location. Like: palace, second floor. So even radiant quests could have better descriptions.