Except that the game was playable, and has always been playable, for many people. Just because some people are having big issues (I'm not denying that the game is buggy) doesn't mean the whole game is broken and that they are obliged to hand out free DLCs.

You only see the people who have issues complaining on these forums, which makes it look like everyone is having issues. But there are tons of people who can run the game just fine and you don't see those on the Issues forum, because they're playing the game.

Source: ?

It sure is strange how some people have so many problems with this game...namely saved games getting corrupted. I've only had one freeze (xbox360) and i needed to restart the console. After that i've had no problems. What im trying to say is.......i paid for the same product as everyone else....still i have somewhat "working" copy of the game and others have non working copies. How is that even possible?

Sure the game has it's flaws and i've seen a bunch of em so far.....Enemies clipping through objects,disapearing underground, some quest can not be completed unless you do it in particular order or it cannot be completed at all. and many more...!

I hope that people who have non working copies get their games working as it was ment to be with a patch that's should have been out a long time a go. Unless im really amped up by a product coming from beth i wont buy it untill i get a confirmation that it is a working product. I would be really pizzed if i paid 69,99€ for a game that is not working as it should be. ie. constant freezes,save games corrupted etc...

I think the developers can do what they want, if people buy the game and it's not complete then that's a shame but other than waiting for patches not much more can be done.

However sales will drop with dodgy games released, and i'm sure it's hurting the company that funded this game as much as those who have to deal with the bugs.
Releasing free dlc would be a romantic idea, a good pr stunt perhaps but again i doubt even extra dlc will fix the damage to the reputation of those companies involved.

I'll give an example of Empire total war, horribly bugged but still enjoyable, the developers for that game decided to release a fixed version "napoleon total war" rather than continue support for patching and fixing empire, this angered alot of people.
So while it does make sense to charge people for extra content, i would say it is unwise to charge anything above ￡5 for it, now i'm not saying fallout new vegas is as bad as empire in terms of buggyness, but i think the comparison is a fair one.
Please game developers don't make the same mistake and charge a ridiculous price for the dlc, now i'm not saying it should be free but i think it should be quite cheap at the very least.

I would, but I wouldnt complain on forums about it. I would personally contact the company.

You all have already had one moderator intervention in this thread before I came in and removed yet more problematic posts. :stare: Next time it gets locked.

Here's a suggestion - read the forum rules - accusing someone of trolling can be construed as flaming, as it is often a way to just try to shut someone down, when you don't agree with them. If you feel a poster is trolling or flaming, use the report button and let the moderators sort it out.

Compensation is not needed for New Vegas if your having bugs and glitches it might be because of the disk, the system (If its a PC), you have one file saved and its currently indoors and are stuck examples being the Novac Hotel room or the Lucky 38. You just gotta be careful and save whenever you do something important and use multiple files I do that if I need to save in a dungeon or inside of a building.

Also, here is another argument:

What if you didn't have any bugs? Would you also get free DLC or something like that?

The OP has every right to suggest that people who have experienced any (of the VAST) amount of issues with this game deserve some form of compensation. I have not played, nor observed a game with as many game-breaking issues since "Whiplash" on the original X-Box, never mind a "AAA" title. For gaming consoles at least. We don't do PC gaming. I've been watching my wife play (hey, a solid marriage where we can take turns or better yet, co-op on games!) for 30+ hours now, and we've actually nicknamed FONV "26 Steps", because that's on average how far a character can walk before halting and waiting for the next "area" to load, and the longer she's played, the worse it's gotten. (We're on PS3, BTW)...

Now I know that some of the things she's run into are the same as the bugs we both dealt with in FO3 (which we loved!), but those were mostly, at worst, minor annoyances. Never had a save corrupted, and never had the issue escalate with more in-game time. The stuff I'm referring to for FONV is mostly either A) Lazy design (locking out certain quests because you spoke to an NPC too early, even though geographically/chronologically you basically have to) or B) Poor playtest procedure. (I.e.- playtesters were given "segments" to test with a pre-fabbed character, as opposed to playing an entire playthrough from a self-rolled toon).

Now, to all the folks who haven't run into any of these bugs, or have the means to self-correct them (on PC), CONGRATULATIONS!!! You have got your $60+ worth, but to the MANY, MANY (even according to these forums) who haven't, well, we're right here with you. It won't matter much, but it does need to be said. If this "product" actually were a car, appliance, or hell, even another $60 consumer "hard good", it would have already been recalled.

Hehe, as a final note, only one and a half months (roughly) after release... Go check it out used at Gamestop... The ones near us are currently selling it for $25. If that doesn't say it, nothing I said above will either!

Actually, the majority of people do not have major bugs. The reason that it SEEMS like the vast majority have bugs is because those people who have bugs are very vocal.

(And, the reason its $25 is because its USED.)

And no, people dont DESERVE compensation, they DESERVE a patch.

Excellent! That explains why, other, older games are still commanding a higher ($35+) price. Keep digging...

Your source for this contention?



I don't know if it's worth going back and explaining yet again to you that this isn't about deserving. The OP was pretty clear, and follow-up posts have been pretty clear. I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you deliberately trying not to understand so you can continue to disagree?

As for who would get the lower price or gratis DLC if the decision was made: it would go to everyone.

My source? You see, many of the newer members just get on, make a thread called FNV svcks!, and leave. That is my source.

What I mean, is that we are not entitled to free or cheaper DLC. We are entitled to a patch.

I don't even think we are entitled to a patch but if the game company doesn't make one then we wouldn't buy any more of their games.

Not entitled to it, maybe, but certainly a show of uh, how do you say? Customer appreciation? Maybe, is in order here. Throw the dogs a bone.

The issues I've had with F:NV have been minimal, nothing issues. But any fool knows the game was shipped in a poor state to make its release date. If I had handed out cash for the console versions, which I think is extortion of the highest order under normal circumstances anyway, I'd be quick to seek some compensation. The rapidity of the first patch and the number of fixes in it is indication to even the slowest consumer that it was KNOWINGLY shipped broken, and that work on the patch was underway before any customer feedback. So yeah, IMO some show of appreciation to the people who handed out a fair whack of cash for a broken product. The QA was, obviously, awful. Especially for the consoles. :shrug:

That'd be supply and demand. Right up until Super Mario Galaxy 2, the first SMG was still like $40 used anywhere I went, because no one was getting rid of it around here.

A large number of people have decided that since New Vegas didn't work for them within the first three weeks perfectly (and they have every right to do this, I'm not claiming they're wrong for doing so), they're returning it. Seems like a mistake to me to spend $60 on a game and dump it for $10 so they can resell it for $25. Lose $50, or just leave it on the shelf, forget about it for a month or two, then when the patch hits, play it. I've seen two of the endings so far, I've decided to just shelve it now until the patch comes out that might fix some of the little issues I've had, and resume playing then.

At any rate, that's why you'll see New Vegas cheaper, in the same way that EA Sports games are dirt cheap when they're used. Certainly Bethesda isn't setting the price of used games, that would be EB/Gamestop/whoever. Once they have x number of copies in, they don't want anymore, but they'll buy them if someone's willing to part with it for next to nothing.

I could take or leave free/discounted DLC. I wouldn't be sore if they didn't do anything. I would however appreciate it if they did though.

A recent example of this was 3DMark 11. I pre-ordered it (Saving $5 in the process for owning Vantage.) but it's release date was pushed back a week later than expected. They stated they had some bugs they'd rather deal with now vs patching shortly after release. (See below.) What did they do? They gave me a free copy of Shattered Horizon, one of their own studios games.

I wouldn't have minded just the heads up, but the offer of a free game made me appreciate the company that much more.



P.S.

I haven't had many issues with the game. Definitely nothing game breaking.

I think some perspective is needed for some of you newer gamers.

Three weeks, a month, 2 months... that's really not a "long time". I guess it is in today's world where everyone plays a game for a week and moves onto the next big thing, where a movie can't retain the number 1 spot at the box office for more than a week or two unless it's a HUGE movie, or someone considers a song released last year to be "old". I don't know or pretend to know what everyone's life is like on these boards, but 5 days a week I go to work, I come home I've got things to do, there's bills to pay, etc... a month is nothing anymore. I think when you're younger it feels like everything takes forever, but it's just been over a month since the release of New Vegas, that's not very much time. Also, consider this:

What would have happened if a game like this had been released in the early 90's? First, there would be no internet forums to go and complain on, or even research to find out that your issue isn't unique. You'd have to call or worse, write, to the company, wait for their response, if they were even willing to admit that the game was buggy (which they might not if EGM or Nintendo Power didn't print something saying "this game is unplayable, and there's a recall") then you'd have to send your game back and wait about 6 weeks while your game got to them, they checked to ensure it was in fact the bugged version, they ship you a new one (if they have the issue fixed) and it finally arrives at your door.

Be glad that they're working on the patch. If you dumped the game to get $10 back out of your $60, you can't complain that Bethesda "stole" or "swindled you out of" your money. If you're patient enough, you'll end up with a working game, which is exactly what you paid for in the first place. Is it ideal? No. Is it how a software company should be run? No. But you can't please everyone right? Valve is a perfect example of the complete opposite. They don't release things until they're absolutely perfect, but that means delay after delay, and customers complaining that they're out pre-order money and they don't have a game yet. So they can't win. Release it when they think it's ready, and deal with the glitches later now that the technology exists, potentially alienating customers... or delay the game for two - six months (or more), potentially alienating customers.

My stance is the same as before... if they're going to give something away, fine, but they're under no obligation. The compensation you're owed is, at the MOST, a game that works as well as can be expected from this series (so minimal to no freezing, and that you can play through to the end without saves being unusable).

Of course no one thinks free DLC is ridiculous. Nothing that is for free is ridiculous. It is ridiculous to ask for them to pay you anything except what you payed them if you are unsatisfied with a product. While practically speaking, a sorry note, or maybe just a fix of the problem and a restoration of your lost data, or anything in compensation for a misleading product is not entirely unreasonable, you must consider that generally speaking, DLC is how they make money some time after a game is released. Thats just one reason no company will ever do anything like this, they lose money, and alot of it. Beyond that, it is in fact your responsibility as a customer to determine that your money is being spent properly. If this problem is as common as everyone says it is, a simple google search for common glitches in fallout would tell you if the product was worth your money, the same way that you'd determine if a new restaurant is any good. This is even more of a powerful argument if you have played the other games you claim have the same glitches. If fallout 3 has the same glitches, well then, would you return to a restaurant that was terrible just because the name changes? No, IF you return, you will investigate if it is worth the time and money first. Quite simply, yes, Bethesda released a game with quite a few glitches, many of which were not detectable during beta testing, and quite frankly, with the large number of people NOT experiencing these glitches, you should not be surprised that the relatively small number of beta testers did not detect a glitch that seems to take substantial use to experience to begin with. The chances that they would detect such a thing with even extreme amounts of testing is still pretty small, which is probably why its so hard to fix. Here is a list of REASONABLE and quite possible requests.

An extended return policy, if you are fed up, take your game back and get your money back
A public apology
A patch for the glitch

Anything other than these and you are asking for money, and are largely wasting time, mostly your own, because quite simply, they do not OWE you anything else. Unless this glitch applied to everyone, they do not lose a large amount of money by having an early glitch that steps on some toes.

i COMPLETELY agree with you. Except the thing is, were not watching a bad movie and deciding to leave, were trying to watch a movie but the projector is broken, and the theatre just telling us to get over it and come back in a couple months


I didn't buy this game to make an investment that would be the exact same 2 months later. If I knew this was the situation before hand, I would have bought the investment 2 months later, and bought one that I could play right now (like fable 3, which I now must wait a few more weeks because I choose new vegas, which I will have to wait that long for anyways )

You are making things up, based on your personal bias or assumptions. Don't feel bad that I point this out, because you are not alone, there's many posters out there like you...



The fact is, Gstaff posted the 'patch is in the final stages of testing' statement on 19 November...it's now 5 December, and nothing further has been heard, and no patch has arrived.

I don't think we need flamewars, baiting or insults on the issue of bugs - the bugs are out there, they affect a lot of people, and there is no way to accurately statistically determine what percentage of gamers experience them.

Five million copies of this game were shipped...the relative number of posters on this board is a statistically insignificant figure compared to that. It is known throughout the industry that only a small number of people will ever register on the game boards, so there is no pressure on the companies to change their ways. The only thing that will force them to do that is a stronger consumer protection system/law/process for computer programs...and because governments and lawmakers don't really understand programming, and fall for the 'it's IT so it's special and we need special rules' rubbish that the techos put out, there's a different set of standards for consumer protection for video games and programs than there is for hardware of whatever shape or form.

Taking this a step further, where I live we have a law in relation to meals and drink - If it fails to meet the standard that it was offered at, then the purchaser gets it free. This could apply to Steam based games quite easilly, because once you register on Steam it's yours, and yours alone...you can't transfer it to someone else. So, technically, all you have to do is state that your game doesn't work, and you should be able to get a refund. Money transfer over wire is a fact of life now. It's not as if that is going to cost the companies anything, except for disc based games, and the cost of the actual disc and packaging is hardly significant...especially when you consider that the company is at fault in the first place.


Edit:

I do consider that there are far to many apologists out there who accept whatever the company dishes out to them. That's their thing I guess, but I have too much respect for myself for that.

I agree.
While not having any major issues ( except occasional freeze but not crash ) and a few minor scripting bugs and glitches , it's been enjoyable. But the negatives are starting to tip the scale on this game.

Surely you jest? Or possibly you're just misinformed.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=440&appgroupname=Team+Fortress+2&feed=steam_updates
http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=500&appgroupname=Left+4+Dead&feed=steam_updates
http://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=220&appgroupname=Half-Life+2&feed=steam_updates

As perfect as they get in the PC sense of things anyway. I've never heard of save corruptions with a Valve game.

Nope, I am not making stuff up on assumptions. Many people I know have no issues with the game. The people with glitches are very vocal, as every single day there are plenty of threads saying "FNV svcks!"

I NOW believe that we are not entitled to anything..not even a patch. But, it would be a smart business move to make a patch that way people buy your games. If your game does not work, then get a refund or trade it in.

Fable had save glitches actually as well (they just got their patch late last week), so no guarantee that you wouldn't have ran into one there had you bought Fable 3 instead of New Vegas.

Also, I'd say his anology was apt. He said it was like if something was wrong and people couldn't see the movie, they'd give you tickets to see a showing once they got the issue sorted out. If it was a very poorly run movie theatre and it took two months to fix a broken projector, well... you'd have to wait two months to see the movie there. And since there are still small towns with only one movie theatre, who's to say that couldn't happen?