People don't think about these though. At least this thread isn't full of "it only costs like 30 cents a DVD!" comments.

Expressing a positive opinion of a company, or being forgiving of it's mistakes on it's own Forum is spamming.....that's actually funny. I think people would be more sympathetic to those having problems with NV if so many of them didn't post hysterical rants full of hyperbole and run to the mods when someone disagrees with them, but that's just me.

NV is a masterpiece...albeit flawed at the moment...and I'm grateful to gamesas and Obsidian for having created it and giving me an alternative to the cookie-cutter crap EA and Activision churn out. If you want a corp to hate on....how about EA? What they did to Mass Effect and Mercenaries once they got thier hands on them should be a crime. As far as NV, the patch fixed most of the problems I had...and they eventually got me a good code for my Classic DLC Pack....so I'm willing to give them the BOD that they'll fix the remaining problems with the game.

That's true, any game that is owned by EA or Activision tends to be crap and not at the same quality bar as its prequels were if at that time they weren't owned by that company. Except I do like Dead Space and that has always been EA and I think Dead Space 2 should be great.

But newer games that have been released seem to be extremely buggy like there were never any testers since some of them are completely obvious game-breaking bugs. (Fable 3 and FoNV)

I wondering how Ubi, did a good job with Brotherhood, only in 1 year, I really found this unbelivable

I'm glad you think it's funny Tiberius...I'm pretty sure the flamers who have been banished didn't think so.

But, as you've taken that component of my post out of context, let me enlighten you:

"I think people would be more sympathetic to those having problems with NV if so many of them didn't post hysterical rants full of hyperbole and run to the mods when someone disagrees with them, but that's just me."

'We' don't want your sympathy, nor do we want/need/ask for/demand for your opinion...And 'we', would prefer people like you not to post in legimitate threads on problems unless you are actually contributing to the discussion, rather than simply throwing a comment in to sidetrack the debate, or to have a dig at those who are posting with complaints or issues, even if those posters have been rather emotive at the time.

A rant is one thing, a pointless counterpost is quite another...(and I think once a line has been crossed, it becomes spamming or flamebaiting).

However, the issue here is about 'compensation' for those people who have problems, not about 'my game is good so I'm happy for nothing to happen', which is pretty much what my series of posts was about, hence my continued dropping in on this board continuing the debate...

I don't know what platform you're playing on, but you have an internet connection otherwise we wouldn't be hearing from you. Can you empathise for a moment with the people playing on consoles (pricey piece of kit and a luxury item for your average Joe, Jane, and little average John, their son, or average Janet, their daughter.) Fact is F:NV was a glitched up mess that required an immediate patch on its day of release. Console owners I sympathise/empathise with, because generally the QA for these platforms is pretty good. Should be, because selling points for them is: NO PC-like Hassle! Any console game that freezes or otherwise locks up is unacceptable. Being grateful to Beth/Obsidian is the last thing you are when your product doesn't do what it says it does on the tin.

My PC case reads: "Feel the Heat in New Vegas! Experience the Great Southwest as could only be imagined! (Ha ha! Funny for those who can barely play it. Imagining it.)" - "Up the Ante! New features, weapons, factions and foes await you in Sin City." "Let it Ride! In a huge, open world you can explore, choose sides, or go it alone. Peacemaker or Hard Case, House Rules, or the Wild Card - It's all in how you play the game."

Not: "Enjoy Gaming? Play for up to an hour before your system freezes!" "Mutant Bugs: You'll laugh and sometimes cry as New Vegas brings you glitches that'll drive you insane!" "Feel the Burn! If you don't have an internet connection and didn't expect to need one for your shiny console gaming, you'll cry when you read the number of fixes in our first patch! Fixes that should have been implemented before release, but hey! You're holding the game! We made the release date! How fun is that?"

My problems with F:NV have been minimal as I've said, I'm on PC, haven't had a CTD or a freeze. Only glitches I've encountered have been quest related, and with things having difficulty occupying the world with any semblance of order. lol Be that as it may, I don't feel the need to urinate on peoples desire to complain - especially console gamers - when their game simply doesn't work, or doesn't work for long, or doesn't work as it should. Asking for a little something to be kicked their way by way of compo, me thinks they deserve it. Especially if they or their parents forked out a truck load of dosh for a game that doesn't work as advertised.

Meh.

Oh!
Well I never!
Was there ever?
A game-maker so clever?
As the mag-i-cal Bethesda Company...

Why don't I want a free DLC? Multiple reasons...

1) We don't deserve it. Bugs happen, so should Obsidian and BGS have to give up their time and money to make us feel better? No. That's like going to work and accidently filing the spam in the keep folder and then being told, "Listen, you did this wrong, guess what? You're working for the rest of the month with no pay."

2) Put yourself in the shoes of the developers for a moment. They had an accident. Should they be punished for it?

3) It's bugs...a patch'll fix it all. A DLC won't do squat.

4) Lastly, and least importantly... If they do a DLC to make up for it...it'll be junk like Horse Armor.

yes they should, honestly. Every Obsidian game was a bug filled mess. It wasn't one accident but many and in every game.

the more someone gets punished the less they do that something that got them punished

So they should make and polish a nice small little DLC that would be worth about $5 but because of their mistake would be $0
Like I said before it could be a small quest pack that leads to a home area with new unique weapons/armor (that is actually useful)
or
the Nellis Flight Sims would actually work and you could use them whenever you wanted.

If they did a "Horse Armor" type dlc then people would get mad saying "this is all we get for all the mistakes?"

but if they did something like what I said it would ease the masses.


-------------------------------------------------------------
Let's take a look at what they did:
-Released an extremely buggy game that seems to have very little playtesting
-Revealed DLC before any ETA on a patch and gave it a price tag of $10 (Basically a giant middle finger saying "Screw you customers, pay more money and we might release a patch")
-No employee has actually commented on any of the bugs or even said if any are fixed

It's not a "punishment".

As I explained the entertainment business is all about value. I have a set amount of disposable income each month, sometimes more than others. I game because I find it a good value for the money, a ticket to a movie costs me 12 bucks and entertains me for 2.5 hours, a video game costs 60 and entertains me for at least 20 hours, it's a good value.

Problem is that right now FO:NV wasn't a great value for the money, so much so that I might consider delaying buying another FO series game until I know that the bugs are fixed, the DLC is released and not exclusive to a platform I don't own, ect. Other games from other companies that don't have those issues might be a BETTER VALUE for my money.

By giving players something free because FO:NV didn't meet value expectations for the money spent, it changes how players see the product and its value. "sure they had problems but they gave me something to make up for it."

Even 2-3 hours of gameplay on a mini-DLC would change both the perception and the pure value calculation.

This isn't about "boo hoo I want free swag" this is about "Right now I'm unsure that the FO series will continue to be a good value for my money, if they were pro-active in apologizing for the quality of their product then I would not have those concerns" It's a measurable business difference, the difference between setting more release-day sales records and people waiting for the inevitable GotY edition.

That makes no sense. Not what you said so much, but just the fact that you are where you are and posting as you are in a thread started by somebody who felt somewhat justifiably short-changed by the product they purchased. If you read through IGN reviews and the like you would never know there was a problem with F:NV, you could make a purchase based on these reviews. Of course if you read the comments below the reviews you'll see a cartload of people mentioning the words bug and glitch every other line. Odd how the game scores so well despite the bugs, I think it's because they're expected, and expected to be resolved at some point. So essentially the score should have a little bracketed sub-score or something: 9.0 (When it eventually gets to where it should be stability-wise.) Otherwise it's a 8.1.

Maybe it was because IGN was given the blurb on the F:NV case and felt the need to justify the game being advertised as IGN's Most Wanted of 2010. Either way, no mention of glitches doesn't make for honest reviews. EVERYBODY has encountered one or two.

If there was free DLC, I doubt I'd go in for it, I didn't use the pre-order code to unlock the Caravan gear, either. But I don't object to people asking for it, and I agree something from Beth/Ob should be expected. It's a weird place you're in. I don't agree that a free DLC would be a burden on any unfortunate, sweatshop working devs, putting in overtime at a penny an hour - poor devs - lol. They get paid, they'll get paid, they get paid from the money that trickles down from the consumers - the ones asking for patches or free stuff. A small pack to quiet the dissenters would be a benefit to the company and its image and welcomed by the people who shelled out spondooley for something that was/is broken, and feel they're owed something by way of uh, appreciation for their having shelled out ￡40/$60. S'not exactly pocket change to most people, and the more people like you chirp in - the more companies get away with uh, shoddy QA and seemingly no, uh, culpability...

Not only do i think we deserve compensation but i know we will get it.
How do you know i hear you moan, because if comments from the staff on this site and the developers are anything to go by then they are "checking the forum constantly", " view every thread ", " take comments very seriously " and

Whoa, had you guys going for a while there.

Sawyer pointed out a few bugs in their last interviews

Buyer Beware....

Someone older than all us (back when people still spoke Latin) said that long enough ago that we should all know better than to plunk our money down without looking into what we are buying.
To all the claims of "Shipped in a broken state": That's only something that the builders could claim with any authority... Since they've not come out and said the game worked any differently than they expected (most of the devs have made quotes along the lines of "Any game this big will have problems we didn't have a chance to fix before release'), we can assume the game works EXACTLY the way they intended.

Wha? The first patch was a stark acknowledgement that the game had been shipped broken. The builders were still working when they'd signed off and the job was seemingly complete. The fix list was long, meaning work didn't stop. Meaning they weren't finished when they were locked for release.

I understand Caveat Emptor.

But this isn't a demand.

A much more modern recommendation from consumer advocates is "try to resolve things with the company first." This is people saying "I am not satisfied with your product this is how you could make it right"

I just don't think there's enough people complaining for them to justify compensation. I personally don't care if they give it to us or not, I'd be happy with a dlc a little cheaper or nothing. People make mistakes and I guess I'm not bothered enough to want something free.

curious...about how many would be "enough"? About how many have complained already?

I know the boards are a small fraction, mainly because you can lurk and you have to set up an account and ect. Calling and email are instantaneous and offer quicker gratification with less hassle. I know before I even came to the boards, I called up. I also know there was enough people who have complained that they had a scripted response ready. Are we talking % of games sold?

If I recall correctly, you can usually write off 5% as happenstance, but if it's more than 5% then it becomes a known issues. It's how they test placebos vs. other medicines. 2 groups, a placebo group and the medicine group. The placebo group about 5% are expected to get better. If the medicine group has <=5% the drug is thrown out. anything above that should require greater investigation. That being said...do we know if 5% or more have complained and contacted the company one way or another (email/phone/boards)?

If they would of said right at the beginning ''sorry guys, yes we screwed up, we are working on it'' and if the fix was out within a month of release, then I would be a lot more agreeable, however my game is still broke and its December, oh but they made sure we knew about the upcoming DLC, and their broken game is still being advertised on the TV on billboards, busses. Then I am reminded by some people how well their game is preforming, how we should not complain, how we should be grateful, buyer beware(WTF!?!?!), I kinda get a bit pissed off and fed up with it all. :nope:

Pssh, Buyer beware :stare:
You say things like that when someone buys a second hand car from some dodgey looking salesman or a suspicious laptop off some shifty bloke in a pub car park. Not when someone, in good faith hands over their hard earned cash, for a game you have waited ages for, made by two well trusted groups of supposed professionals, only to be totally betrayed, ignored and cast aside. :slap:

It's only been two months. I've gotten like three patches but I'm on pc. The dlc they probably were already working on, that's what people usually do.

I think 25% is an ok amount for some sort of compensation, it's just a game so I don't expect as much as if if was a medecine or anything.

I think 25% is a little excessive. I would say around 8-10%.

Beyond any valid points, I believe this one makes the most sense.

Look at your other popular multi platform game companies. Valve being a HUGE example. Everyone knows valve right?
Someone with knowlege of valve, please explain how long the second half-life game took? (it was an absolutely hideous amount of time.)

Anyone remember duke nukem? Think really hard, because I'm definitely not the oldest gamer here. You remember when they announced Duke Nukem Forever? I was still just a little boy. Now I am a man in the eyes of most, and well past many LEGAL restrictions, and we still await this game, and it was only just announced that it turned hands.

Every single DLC for Left for dead has been delayed at this point for one reason or another. (could just be console though)

My point? Most of these are the result of henpecking for glitches and keeping the engine current. I for one, would rather have the game with glitches that only hit some people once in a while (These large magnitude glitches being the target here. I very seriously doubt any more than a small handfull of people have experienced these glitches in any large numbers.) than wait for an acclaimed "glitch free" release that only turns up a bunch of bugs later.

Betrayed?, that a bit harsh you know, oh and we waited only 2 years, and the ones responsible for the bugs and glitches are Obsidian, not Bethesda

then again, i dont think that we deserve a compensation, maybe some kind of sidequest, but a free DLC, for what?, for more bugs and glitches?

Bethesda Softworks (not Bethesda Game Studios) is to blame. They set the time restrictions.