Constant removal of features, Pt. 3

Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:37 am

I really think that Skyrim will be a "transition" TES game.

Why? Because whenever you have a change in a game, and it isn't realized fully until experienced with every little nuance....this change,
And the total : "After the hype has cleared my mind" has happened ....people will still buy the TES series from here on out.

The team from Bethesda Studios worked on this game and knew they were trying something completely different, and they succeeded in selling a lot of copies.

That doesn't make the game great. And, I believe they know what the shortcomings are... They know what they removed.

So , in my eyes, not Skryim, but the TES series will only get better from here. It will get better, because they know they tried something, and they will go
off of that to improve it again. Also remember, we are due for some new content this year to add to this game.....and NOBODY knows what this will be.
We can guess. I would be willing to bet, that we will see something added outside of a new area / faction / quest in the game regarding perks or skills.
It's just a feeling.

Peace.
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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:40 pm

(text)

I agree with everything you say.
The way Oblivion handled it was not well at all. Degradation was too fast and there was only one type of repair tool.
There are many ways in which it could have been improved, all of them preferable over axing the feature entirely.
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LijLuva
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:25 pm

A few i miss:

unlock spell
spell creation
hand to hand Skill Tree
no Armour repair
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Melung Chan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:13 am

WAI WARRIORS NO GET ROGUE SKILL starting to sound familiar...
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Robert Devlin
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:53 pm

One other gut feeling: And I am going out on a limb here..... (and read my prior post first_)

I believe that some mechanics of this game were purposely held back for DLC.

Yeah.....ponder that for a moment.

Example:

follower limitations ( they have future plans )
Spell limitations ( future spells added )

It has been stated by Todd, and a dev , that the land is big enough.

So, I do believe our DLCs will add flavor to what is already here, expanding on specific roles in Skyrim with factions,
quests, and perks, skills, etc.

So, I do believe we will get "features added back in"
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:29 am

I told myself I wouldn't come back to this thread, but here I am. Alright, last word!

Since Morrowind runs even after ten years, I'm thankful I can get my open-world, RPG fix because few, if any, titles have matched it in that time. I love Skyrim for what it is and I have tremendous fun with it, but it doesn't feel like a true, Elder Scrolls RPG. You can't avoid combat and character customization feels a little shallow when considering how immersive it could have been. I just hope the next title, or maybe future DLCs, will address these issues. I hope.

Do your RPGs require being open world? If not and if you have played any of these (comsidering your previous comment about the ability of your PC to play DA:O), you may consider these older games if you have played them and they are fantastic RPG. I mean, your choices have effects on the story and plots states and have decent maps:

Knights Of The Old Republic
Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines
Mass Effect (still great though it has all voice acting) this game, IMO, has the greatest story ever told in a game.
Neverwinter Nights Diamond Edition
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Ten years ago, it wouldn't take as much resource to make a game. That's the real reason. Or do you believe you can model 50 Skyrim creatures as fast as 50 Morrowind creatures?

Do you believe modeling a lot of creatures is what makes a good game and/or RPG?

What a bizarre and pointless argument. Read what people criticize Skyrim for and ask yourself how time-intensive these demands are.

Skyrim doesn't have major flaws and is easily the best Elder Scrolls game to date.

Major flaws of Skyrim:

1. System. Varies between "fragile balance" and "broken to hell".
2. Quests. Not as much spoon-fed but literally forced on the player. Offer no real choice in execution.
3. Writing. What little of it there actually is.
4. Next to no requirements for anything you do. You can become an Archmage knowing only three Novice spells. You can become a master of a Thief guild slaughtering your way through every job.
5. Next to no consequences to anything you do. Only thing that changes is random guard's comments.
6. Removal of multitude of features from previous TES titles.
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OTTO
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:07 am

That would totally defeat the purpose of the lockpick skill and the unlock spell, just like how having the unlock spell defeats the purpose of the lockpick skill and vise versa. People would naturally use w/e is the easiest, which would prboably be bashing and it makes the other two pointless.

Also bashing things open would probably involve having a random chance of a item breaking which isnt fair for warriors.

It would be fair. Bashing would be easiest yet have a chance to break items. Lockpicking would be in the middle, needing lockpicks that break and multiple attempts usually needed for higher level locks (although I think lockpicking could be made a bit harder to actually make taking perks in the skill meaningful). Unlock spell would be hardest because you would have to train up your Alteration in the 70+ range to get Expert and Master locks open.

I don't get how people can seriously say unlock spells would make lockpicking useless. It already is useless since a level 1 character with 5 in lockpicking skill can open a master lock if you have a handful of picks. Which cost all of 6 septims to buy. Unlock spells, which are level/skill dependent (apprentice skill level for apprentice locks, expert alteration skill level to get expert open locks spell etc.....) actually need you to work at the skill to open the tougher locks.
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Alexx Peace
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:02 pm

If a game developer kept doing the same thing over and over again and again and never tried any new things, then that developer wouldn't be very successful.

Things need to evolve. Try some new things each time that you think work better. Some actually do work better, some don't. Also Bethesda has to cateer to a whole public of all different kinds of opinions. Some are bound to dislike some things while other like the same thing.

This is life and a necessary step a developer needs to take if he or she wants to be successful in the long run.
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Erika Ellsworth
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:18 pm

If a game developer kept doing the same thing over and over again and again and never tried any new things, then that developer wouldn't be very successful.

Things need to evolve. Try some new things each time that you think work better. Some actually do work better, some don't. Also Bethesda has to cateer to a whole public of all different kinds of opinions. Some are bound to dislike some things while other like the same thing.

This is life and a necessary step a developer needs to take if he or she wants to be successful in the long run.

I wouldn't call that evolution.
Random examples:

NWN1 to 2 was evolution.
BG1 to 2 was evolution.
FO3 to FNV was evolution.

Gothic I to 2 and 3 was evolution (if you take out the optimisation and bugs of 3) but gothic 3 to 4 was not evolution.
DA:O to DA2 was not evolution.
Fable 2 to 3 was not evolution.
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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:51 pm

I think you have mistaken the "evolution" with the "improvement" word. And anyway, it's just your opinion :P
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herrade
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:06 pm

I think you have mistaken the "evolution" with the "improvement" word. And anyway, it's just your opinion :tongue:

What i'm saying is that monkeys to humans is evolution. Humans to monkeys is called devolution.
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Claudz
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:11 pm

I wouldn't call that evolution.
Random examples:

NWN1 to 2 was evolution.
BG1 to 2 was evolution.
FO3 to FNV was evolution.

Gothic I to 2 and 3 was evolution (if you take out the optimisation and bugs of 3) but gothic 3 to 4 was not evolution.
DA:O to DA2 was not evolution.
Fable 2 to 3 was not evolution.
I'm saying that developers need to try new things. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. They can't predict how millions of different kinds of people will think of a feature or removal of a feature.
Without trying new things, what's even the point of making a new game? If you stick with the same things all the time, you'll never develop as a developer and doubt you will be very successful.

It seems people fail to realize that.

In general I think Skyrim has gone many good ways. A few bad ways, but in general many good ones.
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carly mcdonough
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:47 am

What i'm saying is that monkeys to humans is evolution. Humans to monkeys is called devolution.

Well to be technical, evolution simply means change. There is no "progress" or lack of it implied in the word itself. Monkeys changing to humans would indeed be evolution.
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Emily abigail Villarreal
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:49 pm

What i'm saying is that monkeys to humans is evolution. Humans to monkeys is called devolution.
Monkeys to humans is metamorphosis, not evolution. You're giving credit to the creationists...

Also, bcs' complains are typical of a player with low gaming culture. It's hard to see more general terms used in placed of detailed features. System : which system? Writing : quests, universe, books, dialogues? etc

If you want to criticise something, be precise, otherwise you'll look like an old man yelling at kids on his lawn.
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Robert DeLarosa
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:48 pm

metamorphosis
  • (n.) Change of form, or structure; transformation.
  • (n.) A change in the form or function of a living organism, by a natural process of growth or development; as, the metamorphosis of the yolk into the embryo, of a tadpole into a frog, or of a bud into a blossom. Especially, that form of sixual reproduction in which an embryo undergoes a series of marked changes of external form, as the chrysalis stage, pupa stage, etc., in insects. In these intermediate stages sixual reproduction is usually impossible, but they ultimately pass into final and sixually developed forms, from the union of which organisms are produced which pass through the same cycle of changes
Evolution

1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/development.
2.
a. The process of developing.
b. Gradual development.
3. Biology
a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
b. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.
4. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.
5. Mathematics The extraction of a root of a quantity.



Monkeys to humans is metamorphosis, not evolution

im sorry you are wrong. Monkeys to humans is not metmorphisis ''Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations'' it would infact be Evolution however in the modern day word Devolution may come into use (be created) as humans would effectivley look at this as going backwards.

basically the only way it would be metmorphisis is if humans got into a cucoon or some special state and changed themselves in the same lifetime.

now shall we please get back on topic?
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Elizabeth Lysons
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:25 am

Well to be technical, evolution simply means change. There is no "progress" or lack of it implied in the word itself. Monkeys changing to humans would indeed be evolution.

Well, i beg to differ. I think it implies progress. If it didn't. the word "devolution" (and some other synonyms) wouldn't exist. Though we use it more like change in the sense of "adapting" to the environment and progressing in it, which may make the term correct if the majority of the game's consumers think it was for the better.

Monkeys to humans is metamorphosis, not evolution. You're giving credit to the creationists...

Also, bcs' complains are typical of a player with low gaming culture. It's hard to see more general terms used in placed of detailed features. System : which system? Writing : quests, universe, books, dialogues? etc

If you want to criticise something, be precise, otherwise you'll look like an old man yelling at kids on his lawn.

Do you expect people to be specific and write 5-10 paragraphs about each, in every post they make?

PS: I thought there were no creationists left in this world!
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gandalf
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:38 am

Well, i beg to differ. I think it implies progress. If it didn't. the word "devolution" (and some other synonyms) wouldn't exist. Though we use it more like change in the sense of "adapting" to the environment and progressing in it, which may make the term correct if the majority of its consumers think it was for the better.

Lol words like devolution exist because people fail to grasp the concept of evolution.
There is no goal or drive in it, nor a road that evolution takes. Evolution does most certainly not imply progress.
It implies change, and only change.
Humans to monkeys would be evolution.
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Jennifer Munroe
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:09 pm

Lol words like devolution exist because people fail to grasp the concept of evolution.
There is no goal or drive in it, nor a road that evolution takes. Evolution does most certainly not imply progress.
It implies change, and only change.

Check Drizar's definition in the above post (which is correct and official).
Therefore i don't believe TES has evolved.
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Lily Something
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:42 am

Check Drizar's definition in the above post (which is correct and official).
Therefore i don't believe TES has evolved.

Wiki has no entry on 'drizar', and google takes me to Spanish sites so Im not sure what definition I am supposed to check.
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Ben sutton
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:38 pm

my post... Drizar is my avatars name ;)
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:34 pm

Wiki has no entry on 'drizar', and google takes me to Spanish sites so Im not sure what definition I am supposed to check.

INTERESTING...

j/k he's not some famous guy with an elaborate theory he is just a guy who posted above :tongue:
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:03 am



It really isnt hard to carry one or two hammers for situations like that.

I liked armour degradation.
It tied me to the world, made me a part of it.
I went to see smiths to get repairs, I had to think and plan ahead when going out into the world.

It has been removed in order to make the game less RPG and more hack n slash.
No thinking, no planning required, just jump into the next fight with your amazingly superhuman weapons that never need sharpening.

Bah.

The removal of these kinds of features is why Im already done with Skyrim.
Skyrim has very little replay value, exactly because there are no mechanics to keep me busy, to specialise in, to help my roleplay.
The removal of all these features, including degradation, means Skyrim is a shallow and hollow shell of a TES game that just isnt fun anymore after a playthrough or two, three.

I was playing an assassin and wanted nothing to do with being an armorer or using that skill, especially when i couldnt repair my enchanted DBH armor even if i wanted to. Instead, i was stuck with 0 value armor and weapons. That certainly didnt tie me into the game world positively. The whole equipment degradation was just a bunch of useless fluff anyway. Wear and tear would never happen that quickly to such quality weapons anyway, and if they made it take very long for degradation then it might as well not be there, and instead move forward with a more improvement based method such as Smithing....which is much more immersive than carrying 15 armorer hammers and clicking on them in your menu
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Noely Ulloa
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:56 am

my post... Drizar is my avatars name :wink:

Lol what a facedesk moment.
Thanks :)
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Darlene DIllow
 
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Post » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:01 pm

It wouldn't because it's about choice.

I would choose to stay undetected, so I'm going to use a lockpick. You might use your axe to break the lock because you don't care about being detected and could handle any trouble that follows. Someone who uses magic wants to use their unlock spell because they don't have a high lockpicking skill and it's less trouble.

That's called RPGing.

Phhht! Roleplaying is lost on the MMO generation...
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Alan Cutler
 
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