But the Germans didn't find out that Hitler wasn't real. When your country or faction espouses a return to a pure humanity and the ideals of America before the Great War, discovering your figurehead isn't even a human being is almost like a third defeat all at once.

And I do believe the Enclave will eventually bounce back, but it will never be the same.


Exactly. A further hindrance to the growth and recovery of the Enclave is that the native population no longer trusts them, and even fears them. After all the propaganda and effort to sway the populace to their support on the East coast, only to come in and attack settlements and wastelanders, means most people are going to warn their children about ever trusting something called the Enclave. One could even theorize that a name change would be required to make headway with their plans and recovery in the future. After all, the Germans are the same people and country, but they certainly don't call themselves Nazis any longer, and have actively distanced themselves from the name and its associations. One could see the Enclave doing something similar (and maybe changing their tactics to not include genocide).

I don't expect them to be in FO:NV. 4 years is not long enough for them to have recovered from the East Coast failure.

I think you are doubting Navarro's power though. If you look at the BoS in Fallout 1, they had about the same amount of men at base. Just look at the damage the BoS did to the NCR during their war, with even less advanced tech than the Enclave had. Now, add even more men for the Enclave (the patrolmen around Navarro), and you have a powerful mix.

Also take into consideration the fact that the NCR and BoS where at war. Both sides lost a lot of men. Both sides have Low Moral. Then expecting them to attack the Navarro? The BoS have inferior tech (and post FO2, less men), and the NCR lost SOOO many troops to the BoS (who where able to fight back due to their tech thats less advanced than the Enclave's). The Enclave at Navarro is still more powerful than the both of them.

And they (Enclave) would run out of supplies like you said. But, why wouldn't they do what the BoS did: Trade tech for supplies?


Now add in what I said a few posts ago:



==========================




But does the Enclave need the support of the populace? Assuming there are no other bases with active Enclave in them, the Enclave archives would have all the information on all pre-war military facilities. What would stop the survivors from finding one and taking it back over, fortifying it, and using it as a new HQ? They would know what was dangerous and what was not through the eye bots reports of the wasteland.

I do agree that the Enclave won't reach the power they had in FO2 though. Not for a very long time.

I'm 50/50 on this one. There's a good chance that they're going to be in the game in some capacity, but there's also the chance that Bethesda messed them up so badly that no one wants to see their faces ever again. Loved Fallout 3, hated the way they handled the Enclave. I'm still hoping that they'll make it back as more of a war torn group vying for control like the Warlords in Star Wars canon after the Empire dissolved.

Seeing as how we both don't want or at least don't expect them to be in New Vegas it's kinda pointless to debate it then. We can take it to your other thread in the other Fallout section. Anyways the BoS and NCR did not go to war right away. FO2 shows that they were getting along. The Shi are also an unknown, they had very powerful tech. Enclave don't look like the types to trade for supplies and how could they when under siege? Again they were told to go East so the bulk of the troops at Navarro would go East. Another thing we did not see the BoS much in FO2, for all we know they had advanced in Tech and increased in numbers. It was 80 or so years since FO1. They got their hands on Vertibird Tech in FO2.

I don't think Bethesda messed up the Enclave. They introduced quite a few interesting ideas concerning them, and really presented the Enclave's cause as something that players could sympathize with and potentially get behind - at least until they killed your father and tried to kill you. Hard to maintain affection under such circumstances, even when you support their goals.

I believe the biggest issue is, like with the BOS, after two games back to back, the Enclave has been over exposed. Sort of faction-fatigue if you will. We've seen and experienced so much with both factions that most people are just ready for something different to take center stage. I personally hope Fallout 4 is a prequel occurring before Fallout 1, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Enclave again eventually. Just not for a while.

i like the enclave faction, i don't expect em in new vegas, or maybe not even FO4, but if the series continues there has to be more enclave again eventually, to make it interesting it would have to be worked into the story in the right way, not just a repeat of FO3 but its possible to work em in there and they could be revitalized somehow with all new technology etc and based out of some secret location or whatever, i just wokuld hate to see em gone completely, they're the bad guys, if they replace the enclave there is just ognna be another group of bad guys, and the enclave was cooler than raiders or talon mercs, they were tough to fight in FO3, they had some firepower, so their needs to be a tech evil faction in the series for the most part.

The Enclave is an idea. Ideas don't die as long as it remains a thought in one man's mind. In other words, never.

But organizations based around ideas die rather often.

Depends on how the organization is run. When conventional warfare fails, guerilla can last quite a long time against a vastly superior foe (Al Queda, etc).

i think we might meet a few members kids since it's been a long time since fallout 2 and i doubt they'd bring back the east coast enclave after their crushing defeat, i think if their in new vegas it should only be a very small group after whats happened they would most likely fade into the background and rebuild their strenght, as for one fsction being the big bad sawyer has said in several interviews that there isn't one it's all pretty gray and really up to the player which is a nice change.

now about the armor i'm assuming we'll either find it at navaro or another outpost or get it from a former member since it looks pretty neglected i'm going to rule out current enclave members since i don't think they'd let their armor fall into such disrepair

"2077 --- March --- Prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the president and the Enclave retreats to remote sections around the globe and make contingency plans for continuing the war."

http://fallout.wikia...Fallout_Bible_0

Near the bottom of the page. Good news for us Enclave Fans. The oil rig was not the only HQ. Neither was Raven rock. They are stationed around the world.

I knew that world map in the oil rig represented Enclave bases...

EDIT: Same for Fallout Bible 3 (latest update with a timeline)

Cheers,
Mk II

Posiibly yes the Enclave could be back because in F3 at the end when u destroy the enclave base some person tell u ' there were a few left but they went west so they could retaliate and rule the world or we could blow their heads off wiv a rocket launcher

If the Enclave shows up in a new Fallout game (either NV or Fallout 4 or NV 2 or whatever), I want them to have changed their plans. They've tried the virus angle twice now, and both times it's failed utterly.

The Enclave is not nessisary for a fallout game. the original fallout worked fine without them. bu what did we have instead? the master. and what was he trying to do? perform a genoside... This appears to be the common theme. geneside. The Enclave have probably been kicked out of america, but there are going to be those that stick around. some of the enclave will undoubtibly have stayed and tryed there best to purify the human race again. The Enclave was made the main enemy twice now, they will probably play a small role, like the outcasts did or as the brotherhood of steel did in fallout two.

whoever it was that said the brotherhood and enclaves roles as good and bad were to odvious, your dead right. The brotherhood was odviously the good guys. not the jerks who sent you out to die in the glow during fallout one. And the enclaves were odviously the bad guys...okay, they were in fallout 2 too but they had the same plot, just in fallout two it was new.

if we see the enclave again they will undoubtably be trying the same plan. afterall that is there only, real goal.

i say forget the enclave we nuked em' twice. If we get a familiar villan i vote for the master. we nuked him once and he was a super radiated/mutated gelatinous blob, who knows what he could survive. His motives were pure. bring back the master.

Yeah, I WILL be dissapointed if there is NO enclave, I blew up the Citadel so now the East cost is full of them, So at anytime they can send a massive strike force to the Mojave

From what I've gathered, the only thing Enclave related is Arcade Gannon.

There's a picture of an Enclave power armor on the Internet, It's a sign that it is possible that the Enclave is in but as a minor faction.

Enclave should come back.. Other wise the mojave will have a raging courier on the loose.. (Plus probably 60% of the fans want the Enclave to be in NV including me)

Speculation also has it that the armor seen is just Arcade Gannon's old suit gained from his companion quest. Like I said, though, speculation.

On a lesser note, what's so attractive about the Enclave? I miss the Unity...

The enclave are probably the only faction with plasma weapons, AND military tactics. (They own also)

Uhm... No?
NCR and CL are both very militant factions.
And plasma weapons, I have no idea who's creating them but they are not as rare as they were made out to be by fallout 3. (only appear when Enclave appears)

Naah *looks back and forth* NCR and Cl both svck. Really the only two factions that appealed me is the Enclave and BoS (I hated the BoS in fo3). I liked the Western BoS because they are tech savy, and the Enclave I think are the most superior

... The only reason you liked them was probably because of their power armors.

Nope, Tactics. Their power armors svcked. I only liked their Mark 1 power armors

Not always. Mass Effect 2 assumes you went Renegade in ME1 (default Shepard kills Wrex, the Rachni Queen and leaves the Council to die). By doing this he deprived him/herself of a loyal and powerful subordinate (not to mention friend and kindred spirit), what could have been a decisive Ally in the war against the Reapers, and has humanity hated and feared as Usurpers by all the Citadel races just when unity is the only hope for everyone....basically making the worst possible choices he /she could have made canon.

I agree with you on how they should have ended FO3, though....the original ending was poorly done and left the "good" player with no sense that thier sacrifice was worth it, and the "evil" player furious because they were shoehorned into doing something thier LW would never have done.