My assertion is not the one under scrutiny.

The dodging worked, that is enough for it to be useful. The fact it meant you could avoid a hit with it means there is nothing to prove. Your assertion however, it complete bull.

But that's exactly the point, exploration isn't the more important mechanic at all. They're both equally important to the game, however combat is the one which is constantly subject to criticism. Improving combat would be a worthwhile investment over creating empty caves.

You could avoid hits with dodging in Oblivion? i thought it was a piece of crap feature that rarely never worked.

If you fight by mindless spamming I'm really really impressed you don't die constantly. That being said I find I use tactics timing, movement ( and yes circling to flank them) managing my stamina and waitng for the right moment and it really improves my survival. My daughter fights like you say you do and dies constantly.


I admit its one of my pet peeves when folks say things have no compexity or variation when I get tons ourt of them though.

So now you're the one saying what is and isn't under scrutiny? Funny girl. My assertion is complete bull? I disagree. For one thing, movement is normalized (No speed attribute) and it shows in combat when utilizing footwork. Short of video recording, which I'm not capable of doing, there's not much proving to do.

I mean you either have enough experience and understanding of mechanics to understand what I'm saying or you don't. Simple as that. I mean otherwise I'm going to go tell you to prove that God is real. Do it.

Dude, you used other peoples' youtube videos as a basis for how I'm skewing numbers in my favor, said that drinking health potions is akin to using the console to set my character's stats into the thousands, said that drinking health potions is akin to turning on god mode, act like positioning matters when you take the same damage no matter where you get hit from and enemies are always facing you, and once again brought out your priceless "oh, I know secret combat tactics that are totally awesome but I'm not going to say them because you just don't deserve them, and definitely not because I'm talking out of my butt" backtrack defense.

You're clueless and not a single part of your post had anything to do with the depth of the combat system. The absolute best you can hope for is to imply that I'm somehow abusing mechanics and not playing it the way it's meant to be played by drinking potions that the game gives you hand over fist, which, unfortunately for you, still does nothing to support your claim that the combat's depth extends beyond running up to an enemy and spamming power attack.

This crap is getting toasty!

It's obvious that Ehra isn't interested in anolyzing and understanding the combat system and instead opts to chug potions to make up for his shortcomings in combat. Since that's all he falls back to, he thinks that combat has no depth and svcks. There's not many combat systems that hold under that kind of scrutiny.

Player.ToggleGodMode -> Oh Em Gee why so easy!? This is too easy. Did someone turn down the difficulty? Why is this so easy? Herp derp.

Not me, the entire thread. Everyone is focused on how full of it you are. Therefore you are the one under scrutiny, not me.
Making everything slower does not make footwork more important. Everyone is the same speed (give or take for scale) so if anything, footwork is now less important. Footwork is now LESS likely to be the difference between winning and losing, and combat is more likely to rely on blocking. It's simple reasoning. You can try and throw ad hominems out all you like, attempting to undermine my understanding, as if there is something important to understand, but it really is that simple, and you really are that wrong.

I thought it was tgm for god mod?

edit.

All of you are wrong!

Seems about right.

It's quite obvious that you misunderstood my reference to Youtube videos. I was using them as an example of the scenarios that you're describing to me. The only reason you're allowed to mindlessly slash at targets is because numbers are skewed in your favor. Either by potions, gear, or enemy player mismatch. I really shouldn't have to elaborate this much on such a simple parallel.


They're both achieving the same result. So honestly, yes. If you have 1000 potions and you're constantly using them, as you described, then yes, it's a similar parallel.


The point of footwork and position is to dodge enemy blows while inflicting your own blows. That's obviously a concept that has flown straight over your head and landed in Red Mountain.


I stated that once and it has no real bearing on the argument in total. Come on now.


The potion chugger is calling me clueless. Cute.


Keep doing that over and over and complain about combat not having depth. If you can't expand your horizons... it's not really on the game. It's on you. Hate to break it to you. *Shrugs*

I loved all the finisher animations. Scissors in particular when you dual-wield was pretty funny the first time I saw it. Bandit was like "What are you doi - ??!! .. " *SLICE* Melee combat for me always ended up being a strategic thing when it came to fire mages. They'd destroy me if I didn't Line of Sight pull them just right around a corner. Even then, I had no way of mitigating all that crazy damage and would chug about 10 potions before all was said and done. Ultimate healing potions.

The blender attack was pretty much my go-to power attack while dual-weilding, though. I never struck with just one weapon at a time. If an enemy was too weak to warrant a power attack of some sort, I'd just club them, though. If they were a bit stronger, I'd do a quick swipe with both weapons. If they were a dragon, I'd activate Elemental Fury and just blender them in seconds. I'm not sure why combat would need to be much more complicated than that.

Stealth combat is amazing now, and by far my favorite, though. The idea that around level 70 sneak I can just zoom past all the Falmer and slit their throats for massive damage is just great. Same goes for everything else, to a lesser extent, actually.

As for spellcasters .. I found that a spellcaster's power comes from a variety of factors, rather than simply being about raw power. How much mana you have, how high your mana regeneration is, whether you've picked up certain vital perks throughout all the magic trees, and probably above all else .. how many master spells you've learned. The master illusion spell I saw sends everything in an entire room running for 30 or more seconds.

Use muffle to silence your footsteps, use wards to block spells and absorb mana, use shield spells to give yourself a nice thick skin, healing spells to shoot your health back up .. all that kind of thing. Mages are quite overpowered by the end of it, from all that I've seen, along the lines of scaling.

Everyone should stop posting here! Its concentrated evil!!

You sure have a funny way of seeing things. This "everyone" that you speak of is all of three people, at most. You, Ehra, and Carrotfeets. And Carrotfeets is a maybe as he wasn't arguing your same points and he stopped posting for the time being.


Actually, having a normalized speed at which players travel makes it easier to make movement a more integral part of gameplay as movement speed would not be highly variable and thus more focused. It shows if you bother to pay attention.


You can throw out names of logical fallacies all you like, attempting to undermine my understanding, as if there is something important to understand from what you're stating, but it really is that simple, and you really are that wrong.

Except, once again, I already explained in detail how I built my character and that I didn't "skew" anything, which means your youtube coment was completely irrelevant.


Here's a thought; if a game's combat mechanics allow a player to achieve godmode by merely using items that the game gives you as loot from dungeons in abundance, maybe that's a sign that the game's combat mechanics are shallow?! Here's another thought..... maybe if potion chugging wasn't "intended," there would be a cooldown on using them!?

This is akin to someone saying that Diablo 2 has deep gameplay/combat, you just have no not use potions during combat. No, that's just handicaping yourself to make up for the games' shortcomings.

You still have no argument.

Arguing about whether or not the combat is "good" is like trying to convince someone that blue is the best color ever when you know their favorite color is red.

Actually, it's more like someone saying that blue is the best color ever and someone else saying if you would just take off your glasses and cover one eye with your hand then you'd realize that red really is the best.

That's subjective and it's very obvious I disagree. This is especially true when you describe constant potion chugging. Herp derp I can't die because I keep using potions. Combat system svcks!


The core combat SYSTEM is not directly related to a player's ability to shrug off all harm with potions. That just means that potions are a bit out of balance and has no bearing on anyone giving a thorough anolysis of a combat system. It's a concept you don't seem to understand.


I'm not saying it's not intended, but yes, if you trivialize combat via potion chugging and don't explore it thoroughly like you clearly haven't, it svcks. Again, that's on you. It's like a player complaining that he can't die once he turns on God Mode.


I've never played Diablo so this example means nothing to me. However, I doubt it contains any accuracy based on the content of your posts in this thread.

And yet, apart from the occasional post from another, they/we make up most of the posts.

This is becoming a pattern of you making a baseless assertion with no reasoning, and then throwing out a jibe at the person questioning you.. this is exactly why we know you have nothing to offer.

So apparently you fail at rhetoric too. I know you understand what an ad hominem is, I am pointing out your fallacies rather than undermining your understanding because, as I have said, there is nothing to understand. All we have from you are baseless assertions which don't hold water, while you occasionally attempt to insult your opposition by claiming they don't understand the mechanics you're talking about.

Haha!

Well, I'm not really arguing that it's good, however, I am arguing that it can be more than just mindless slashing. If you skew the numbers in your way, either through toggling God Mode or chugging a whole lot of potions, then yes, you can trivialize combat and make it mindless slashing. Although you'd have to be wearing a blind fold to not realize that you're ignoring a good portion of the combat system as a whole by doing that.

Well guesss what?!!!! I like the combat!!!!! and i refuse to see otherwise.

Playing since Morrowind and the combat has always felt clunky. Different moves tend to not go together. Something I think I would've prefered would be...

(pc user)

left click attacks as it does now but clicking in succession will produce a 3 or 4 hit sequence.
Pressing a direction when clicking will produce a different sequence.

This will then offer different combinations. If you go with 4 hit sequences and consider that you have standing plus each direction you end up with 4^5 = 1024 possible fighting sequences.

S = standing, L = straff left, R = straff right, F = forward, B = back
1 = first hit in sequence, 2 = second, etc.

Some fighting sequences could then be...

S1 - L2 - L3 - F4
F1 - B2 - B3 - R4
S1 - S2 - F3 - F4

Each one being designed to flow smoothly with any other.

Power attacks could then take up two one hits increasing the possible fighting combos even further.

Add to this a parry that is based on matching hit with hit. If you know what the moves look like, and recognize the move being used against you, if you match that move your weapon will clash with theirs.

In the case of 1 handed, the other mouse button won't do anything but your attacks recieve an automatic +50% to damage (strength of the off hand). Or you can equip a spell (losing the +50% and gain what ever equiped spell). Or you can use a shield, for which you can block, shield bash, and shields are the only thing capable of stopping arrows 100%.

I think that this would give the combat system more depth and make it smoother but that's just me.