Dawnguard and Future DLC Discussion - Thread #32

Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:25 pm

This is total speculation, but I think this dlc will deal with Molag Bal. Hear me out. The main connection between vampires and snow elves is Molag Bal. Molag Bal created vampires as an insult to life, and he's also the lord of slavery. The falmer were slaves to the dwemer. Maybe the snow prince made a deal with Molag Bal to return as a vampire, or maybe he's defying Molag Bal in some way and he's unleashing powerful vampires upon the world, or some combination of the two. Either way, I think the Elder Scroll seen in the files will be used to somehow change the fate of the falmer, or perhaps fight off the bloodmatron Lamae Beolfag.

Just wild speculation, but this is just what I've pieced together. What do you guys think of that idea?

Interesting theory
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:32 am

My only real thoughts on the DLC so far are this:

If Beth has waited 7 months to even release details on it, it better be 1) Big and 2) Good.
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Emilie M
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:14 pm

Theres one problem with your Molag Bal Theory, Dwemer laugh at Daedra, and Falmer as far as can be observed do not worship Daedra so Molag bal has all of nothing to do with it.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Theres one problem with your Molag Bal Theory, Dwemer laugh at Daedra, and Falmer as far as can be observed do not worship Daedra so Molag bal has all of nothing to do with it.
Didn't Molag Bal make the first Vampire?
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Sarah Unwin
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:15 am

Hey, if we can go back to morrowind, maybe we could

Spoiler
help Brand-Shei to rebuilt the Great House Telvanni.

It would be great in my opinion ! :smile:

And moreover,

Spoiler
Since he was raised among former slaves, he could as well rebuild a new Telvanni House opposing any kind of slavery. If the theory about the Twin Lamps as a subfaction of a larger Dawnguard (a theory I expressed before) has anything true, then it could be part of this scheme. So, what do you think?
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Ice Fire
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:34 am

Theres one problem with your Molag Bal Theory, Dwemer laugh at Daedra, and Falmer as far as can be observed do not worship Daedra so Molag bal has all of nothing to do with it.

I didn't say the dwemer had anything to do with Molag Bal directly, but every act of corruption and unlawful domination empowers him. The snow elves may or may not have worshipped him, but it's a common pattern in the elder scrolls that every race knows of the same general gods, they just have different names for them, or know of a different aspect of the same godhead. If my theory holds, then the snow prince could have made a "deal with the devil" with the being we know as Molag Bal. The fire stone is the type of daedra that torments and breaks your will through slavery and other evils, then makes you willigly follow him when you give up hope. Or perhaps the snow prince is fighting him in some way, defying him by striving to become free without falling to his corruption. Either way it's speculation, but I think my logic holds.
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:44 pm

If it's vampire hunting, can we have silver arrows back seeing as silver swords get a bonus v. undead (and while we are at it, bolts too)?
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Lovingly
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:49 pm

If it's vampire hunting, can we have silver arrows back seeing as silver swords get a bonus v. undead (and while we are at it, bolts too)?

The bonus against undead never seemed to make up for how much weaker than other weapons the silver swords are, and did it have any effect against werewolves at all?
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Nauty
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:12 am

The bonus against undead never seemed to make up for how much weaker than other weapons the silver swords are, and did it have any effect against werewolves at all?
From UESP : "Silver weapons (regardless of type) gain 20 base damage when used against undead or werewolves. This amount is not improved by your weapon skill, but is increased by relevant enchantments and perks."

The thing is the arrows would be useful at any level, unlike the swords.
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Doniesha World
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 am


Didn't Molag Bal make the first Vampire?
As I recall she herself wasn't a vampire. She's sort of a different being all her own. But Bal made her and she went on to spread his gift as vampirism.

Edit: I was wrong. According to UESP, she is counted as a vampire, though she's likely far more powerful and works a bit differently than modern bloodsvckers.
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Fiori Pra
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:09 pm

Just thought I'd clarify some lore stuff for the people asking about the dwemer's dissapearance and vampire backstory.

The dissapearance of the dwemer has basically been solved. They tried to create a god out of mortal materials, and in turn make themselves gods. This breaks the basic laws of the TES universe because you can't "turn the profane into the divine". Makes you wonder if Talos was ever REALLY human eh? As a result, they either anti-created themselves or were exterminated by Azura, as even the daedra feared them. Michael Kirkbride also hinted that he and the people at Bethesda will likely never show us the dwemer because they should stay a mystery.

Someone also mentioned how it would be difficult to give vampires a backstory because they're barely mentioned outside of background lore. A valid point but keep in mind that the same is often true for the subjects of TES' expansions. Sheogorath was barely in oblivion less than vampires were, yet they made an entire questline that expanded his lore. I have no doubt that however vampires are involved in this game, they'll be written in well.
Ya see, I think that's a HUGE error on the part of Bethesda.
The lore says that no one really knows what happened to the Dwemer - that everyone ASSUMES they disappeared suddenly because they allegedly tried to transcend the mortal plane.

However, there is an alternate and much more plausible explanation.
If I remember right, the Dwemer were getting run out of every place they settled. I think they were driven from Elsywehr (or however you spell it) and retreated to Morrowind, and then fanned out into Skyrim.
Clearly they were in trouble from the start. You can see that at least in Skyrim they build SOME stuff on the surface, and Markarth especially looks like a normal surface city (or as normal as Dwemer could make one.) However, there must have been friction with the snow elves, because they seemed to both retreat to higher ground and also DIG DEEP in that higher ground.
Once the Nords arrived and started stomping the snow elves AND the dragon, they must have felt the surface was even less inviting. Blackreach must have been the result.
But:
In Morrowind, their control of the Heart of Lorkhan was not enough to protect themselves from both the Dunmer and Nords. Which leads to an inevitable question:
Since the Dwemer haven't been found on any non-earthly/ethereal plane (because the Aedra, Daedra or their minions would have reported it), THEY MUST STILL BE SOMEWHERE IN TAMRIEL - but WHERE?

To me, Blackreach is a singularly important clue.

It's pretty clear that THEY WENT DEEPER.

They must have been preparing for their retreat for some time. When the Heart of Lorkhan was triggered during the final, climactic battle in Morrowind, I would be the whole race was magically teleported to VERY DEEP areas that had been already prepared. Sure, some ash piles were left behind - either of dwemer who were 'uninvited', or perhaps by error (the process might not have been perfect), or possibly the ashes represent material other than Dwemer flesh that was not compatible with the teleportation process.

From the lore I've read, the few ash piles that were discovered cannot possibly account for all the dwemer.

What about the falmer?
They're used to living underground. Clearly they've found ways to feed themselves. So why are they moving their way towards the surface, now even hunting and raiding?
Looks to me like they are trying to GET AWAY from something. As if they were.................escaped slaves.............which would also explain their rejection of dwemer armor and weaponry in favor of items of their own manufacture.

And, finally, look at the automatons in the ruins.
If the dwemer all suddenly died, perhaps one could understand that their maintenance robots would continue to function without someone there to turn them off.
But how can anyone explain the OVERWHELMING preponderance of security/military robots?
I'd say it's pretty clear. They are there to observe and man the OBSERVATION POSTS, or 'pickets' if you will. They are the forward observers who are watching the surface dwellers in their sporadic penetrations of dwemer facilities close to the surface, so the dwemer who are much deeper have advance warning of any possible invasion.

The conclusion is inescapable.
THe Dwemer still exist, and are very, very deep.

BETHESDA:
Hire me. I'll write the story for you. Hell, I'll recruit and manage the dev team. It will be an expansion of Legendary - nay, EPIC - proportions. It will make the Saga of the Volsungs look trite by comparison.

:cool:
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SiLa
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:30 am

From UESP : "Silver weapons (regardless of type) gain 20 base damage when used against undead or werewolves. This amount is not improved by your weapon skill, but is increased by relevant enchantments and perks."

The thing is the arrows would be useful at any level, unlike the swords.

Hmmm, well when i experimenting with how much it damage it dealt to the draugrs in dustmans cairne , i think it was there anyway, my sword skill wasnt exactly good and it didn't really match up to the steel sword i had

I agree that silver arrows would be alot more useful, but i doubt they would be implemented unless they bought back the fact that ghosts are actually ghostly and need special weapons to hurt them.
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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:32 pm

it says in the files the reading of the elder scroll so i assume perhaps another time portal back to the war with snow elfs and nords when they snow price still lived?.
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abi
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:13 pm

Edit: Oh I see. You're saying they all teleported at once to a deeper location. Still, as I recall the dwemer dissapeared the moment Kagrenac finished his work on the heart of Lorkhan, meaning they were indeed trying to become gods, not teleport to a different locale.
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Lisa
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:45 pm

The lore says that no one really knows what happened to the Dwemer - that everyone ASSUMES they disappeared suddenly because they allegedly tried to transcend the mortal plane.

IIRC there is no mystery to where they are. The Dwemer became the skin of the Numidium.
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[Bounty][Ben]
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:50 pm

[snip]
The Dwemer were absolved into the golden skin of Numindum, who is currently otherwise engaged, and will remain so until the fifth era. They are now all collectively a giant stompy robot.
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Sarah Bishop
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:20 am

Yeah their essence was absorbed into Numidium, but their actual conscienceness is gone. There are no dwemer left except for Yagrum and perhaps a few others lost in the outer planes.
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:02 pm

Yeah their essence was absorbed into Numidium, but their actual conscienceness is gone. There are no dwemer left except for Yagrum and perhaps a few others lost in the outer planes.
Wait - that's a 'possible' explanation of their disappearance that's presented in the lore.
But it doesn't fit in a logical sense. After all - why would that dwemer guy who triggered Lorkhan's heart wipe out the conciousness of his entire race?
Clearly using the heart is possible, and not as lethally dangerous as one might think - otherwise the three god-kings who took over Morrowind after the dwemer vanished (Vivec and the other two) would not have been able to rise to such heights of power if any or all of the daedra and aedra were able to use the power of the Heart in the manner that a destruction of the Dwemer implies they could.

There's more to this.

Bethesda - you need me. :cool:
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Gemma Woods Illustration
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:17 pm

After reading half of those new file names I have a new theory.

Another city like Blackreach. Bethesda knows how much we loved Blackreach. But this one has Snow Elves in it, including their Prince. And Dwemer machines (from the crossbow). And Vampires. Possibly Vampire Snow Elves. Sounds kinda lame when I say it though.

And I think it's obvious that Vampires will have some special Vampire Kill Cams.
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A Boy called Marilyn
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:37 pm

Kagrenac thought he found a loophole in one of the most basic laws of the universe. The gods can become mortal, which is what happened to the ancestors of men and elves so they could create the earthbones (laws of the mortal realm) but Kagrenac thought he could reverse this. But some his peers thought he was so obsessed with bringing his people to enlightenment that he ignored issues with his calculations that could result in anti-creation of the entire race. When he used the heart, his people vanished. As Yagrum said, the dwemer suceeded, but at the cost of their conscienceness. Instead of created a god that could make them all gods, they were absorbed into a being that could, ironically, break many of the earthbones themselves (the power known as CHIM) which is what Tiber Septim did with it to conquer Tamriel.

The heartwights: ALMSIVI and Dagoth Ur didnt use the heart to its full poential, so they didnt suffer the same fate. This is why, despite their power that rivaled the daedra themelves, they were still not true gods, and were subject to mortal flaws that destroyed them all in the end.

Now, I know that was complicated, but I hope it explains both of the holes you see. I love TES lore so I love talking about this stuff!
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Jynx Anthropic
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:44 pm

And you have to keep in mind that Lorkhan was more powerful than any of the Daedra. That's why his heart alone, split 4 ways and not even to its full potential could rival the Daedric Princes. Lorkhan was a higher subgradient.
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Paula Ramos
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:28 pm

Yeah. The heart was likely stronger than Lorkhan himself after it bound itself to the world. According to the elves, the Divines tried to destroy the heart, but it laughed at them and said that "This heart is the heart of the world, for each was made to satisfy the other". It's literally the core of the world itself, the anchor that holds it together. To truly destroy it would destroy the world, and the heart contains the power of the world itself. Now THATS power. I love these conversations. Anyway, I hope that stuff clarifies my original theory. I think it's a pretty good one (pats self on back) haha.
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Dj Matty P
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:32 am

Bethesda is really Genious indeed... Now they got everyone Hyped about the DLC.

Crossbows sound Epic, i may have to create a new character just for the DLC, a Vampire Hunter.
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:29 am

Ya see......

:cool:

You are my hero

Beth, hire him :)
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Angela
 
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Post » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:39 am

Animations\DLC01\Special_DLC01CoffinExit.HKX
< hkcstring>Animations\DLC01\Special_DLC01CoffinIdle.HKX


What the hell is this? Sleeping coffins for vampire players?
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Tiffany Holmes
 
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