Oh common Parthurnax saved the world and deserves to live happily ever after and marry a donkey

Hell ill go out on a limb and say delphie was smarter than us. Maybe she knew or just a coincidence that we were using paar while he was using us and in the spy business once we got what we needed we crossed paar,before he got what he wanted alduin gone so hes the top dragon and maybce Crosses us in the future since his whole purpose of sitting on the mountain top isolated is no longer ther since right after we tell him alduins defeated he leaves and goes off trying to dominate the other dragons under his way of the voice or in his words his righteous thuum....

For whatever reason you just aren't as emotionally invested in the story, but those of us who do feel passionately about it are getting our money's worth from the game. Quests like this and the 'In My Time of Need' quest get people thinking and feeling which is always good.

I find Delphine to be a stereotypical stubborn older woman who wants to order people around and be obeyed. Not the kind of character who I will go out of my way to aid. When she gets her way she maintains her superior, commanding persona, and when she doesn't get her way she turns into a petulant child. My opinion is that she becomes obsessed with killing off Paarthurnax, (citing a very old list from Skyhaven) because she needs to feel relevant and in control. I think she's in denial about The Blades no longer serving any vital function in the Empire. Attempting to impose a major and consequential condition on you is her reaction to no longer being at the forefront of important events in the world. If she got her way, and you killed Paarthurnax (your helper) for her then that surely confirms her own importance.

Tell Delphine I'll be right over.

While cleverly eluding to what I'm getting at.

How cool would it be that if you choose NOT to kill paartharux, he after xx hours of ingame. HE becomes the next alduin? And you go through another main quest line.

I also hate the fact that you can never do anything wrong in quests. Like not killing paar or do killing him makes no difference anywhere you go.

The Greybeards are about as bad really. If it wasn't for Paarthurnax insisting on it they would have just let the world die and never help you defeat Alduin.

So who do you go with? The humans that want to save the world and kill Alduin, or the humans that want to sit on a mountain all day doing nothing while the whole world dies?

Sure the Blades, Delphine, sees the dragons and the Dragonborn as a way to start up the Blades again, to revive the lost faction that in times past was so noteworthy and honorable. I can't really blame her. I would do the same thing in her shoes. The problem seems to be her unwillingness to allow even one dragon to live, even one that has the same goal as us to defeat Alduin. I image she thinks that after the world sees the Blades again as mighty dragon slayers that their honor will come back and they will be regarded as heroes. Perhaps even the emperor would call upon them again.

The Greybeards on the other hand, are willing to just let the whole world die like it's some kind of cleansing event or circle of life garbage. If it wasn't for Paarthurnax telling Arngeir to get his head out of his @#$ we'd all be dead (in the game of course).

The very fact that he says not to trust dragons give me points in my book. He works to overcome his nature, as should we all, so I have to give him credit. The problem is that Delphine is stuck in the past, we need to move on in order to survive.

Plus I have the thought that when a young Talos went to the Greybeards he must of at some point learned about Paarthunax (this is an assumption to be fair). And he did not try to kill him, so why should I? If Talos gave him the benefit of the doubt then who am I to contradict this.

Overall its simple, Paarth has helped me far more than Delphine and therefore I won't kill him. Now if he were to succumb to his darker tendencies I would kill him in a heartbeat, but not before

Side Note: Even though Delphine annoys me, I still wont kill her either.

I love Fus Ro Dah'ing her ass off the [censored] mountain over and over and over and over

If it's a choice between Greybeards and Blades, I'll always go Greybeards. Sure, they're more than willing to let the world end or not get involved in the Civil War, even though they might have the power to stop either of those things, but they feel that it truly isn't their place to get involved in these things and I can respect that. Especially because they never once try and shape your destiny. They leave you to make their own choices, just as they have.

The Blades on the other hand, are trying incredibly hard to shape your destiny. They want you to be the face of their organization, even though you'll still have to take orders from them (which is odd because their entire operation depends on you). They try to make it so you cave in to their desires at every turn. If you side with them, Alduin's defeat is not your victory, it's the Blades' victory, something they'll use to try and achieve some legitimacy.

Ay, there's the rub!

Paarthrunax (Ambition Overlord Cruelty), perpetrator of many atrocities during the Dragon War says "Don't trust Dragons" and we are supposed to trust that he (a dragon) isn't planning a further genocide? Right, pull the other one. Sounds like a Liar Paradox to me.

I submit that Paarthurnax was trying to play the Dovahkiin into eliminating Alduin so that Paarthurnax could take over.

So The Greybeards are morally superior because they are willing to let the entire world die so they don't have to take a side?

There's no malevolence in what they're doing, which is more than what I can say for the Blades' dreams of genocide. Besides, I said nothing about moral superiority. I said I side with the Greybeards because they do not try and control me. The Blades do seek to control me. I'm no mortal recruit for them to boss around. I am Dovahkiin. I have the soul of a dragon, and I refuse to let someone clearly weaker than me determine my fate.

No Malevolence in not acting to save the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6

Not at all. It's pacifism, pure and simple. Besides, consider their point: Alduin was created by Akatosh, the chief of the Nine Divines, to devour the currently existing world so that the next may begin. Alduin's purpose is rebirth through destruction. If it's time for the world to end, who are they to argue? Whose to say that the next world that will be created after this one is destroyed won't be infinitely better? One that doesn't have the Thalmor persecuting Talos worshipers or Skyrim engulfed in a civil war? Wouldn't stopping the creation of this better world be a worse action than allowing it to come into being?

The reason I choose to stop Alduin is not to stop him from devouring the world, but because he has forsaken that duty and is trying to rule it instead.

And I'm really not getting your whole WWII obsession here.

And Paarthurnax Apologists are assuming that the Dragon that says "don't trust Dragons" is to be trusted.

Well if you go with the Greybeards, your dead. So nice knowing ya.

As far as the Blades, again if I were them I would do the same thing. They think it's all over and low and behold here come dragons and ... a Dragonborn. They know historically they helped the Dragonborn. Of course they want to use the Dragonborn to restore their order. I'd do the same thing. Of course slaying all the dragons is a great way to get recognition. I'd do that too. Wanting P dead is their only fault and I can forgive them that also based on the history they are using to come to that decision.

Don't get me wrong I like P and all my Nords that did the MQ let him live. The Imperial and Orc I played that did the MQ however rather the Blades were restored.

Well I didn't say that. What's wrong with executing him after he acts in a hostile way rather than before?

*moderator note: We don't allow discussion of politics here*

I went with the Greybeards and I'm not dead.

Well, if dragons aren't to be trusted, and the dragon tells us not to trust dragons, doesn't that mean we should trust dragons?

I don't believe Paarthurnax deserves to die for atrocities I don't even really know the details of. As stated above, the people who want him dead want him dead because he killed people trying to kill him. That sounds like self-defense to me.

If Paarthurnax does try to replace Alduin (which seems highly unlikely to me), I'll deal with him then, but I won't execute someone because he might do something bad down the road.



Like I said, the Greybeards don't try and restrict me, so I'm free to do what I want. I'll save the world without them, and they can continue meditating and trying to achieve enlightenment. We both win.

The huge difference between what the Blades used to be and what they are now is clearly defined in your post. "...they helped the Dragonborn," vs "...they want to use the Dragonborn..."

Those are two very different verbs. If they genuinely wanted to help me, they wouldn't offer me that "You're either with us or against us" ultimatum later in the main quest. But the fact of the matter is they are only trying to use me. They are completely dependent on me, and aside from a bit of useful data here and there (which they only give up when it suits their own purposes), they offer me very little.

Because it IS after.

BTW

This is all Devil's Advocate. Out of my 5 Characters, only my Orc Imperial has killed Paarthurnax. The rest probably won't.

Leave real politics out of this as we don't allow such discussion.

Then you didn't go with the Greybeards. They wanted you to lay down and die. Paarthurnax tells them to shut up and help you anyway. Course you could argue that Paarthurnax is a Greybeard, since he is supposed to be their leader.



I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can see Delphine's point of view. In her shoes, I may do the exact same thing. As far as my characters go, the Imperial wanted to be a part of that old faction called the Blades. My Orc was just looking for another reason for fame and glory by killing dragons so he can start is own Orc clan.

I will note something else. When you start "Season Unending," you can choose to start it with Paar, with Delphine, or with Esbern. Either of the Blades will give you "Paarthurnax" (quest to kill Paar) even before you try to negotiate the cease-fire. This suggests that their lust for Great Justice is so great that they're asking you to consider short-circuiting a chance at peace in Skyrim to see the old dragon dead.

Funny thing is, with their hatred of the Thalmor, they have knowledge of what will benefit the elves: the dragons causing chaos, and the Civil War causing chaos. Yet they try to get you to kill Paar before the treaty - do they not know, or do they not care, that this would rile up the Greybeards enough to not have the treaty, thus ensuring that the war would continue?

Finally, it shows a lack of focus. Sure, Paar was Alduin's lieutenant and shared in the atrocities; but he's not currently a threat. It's Alduin himself, running around and turning dead dragons into living dragons, and eating the souls in Sovngarde, who is the threat. Besides, if Dovahkiin can take Alduin, then s/he is certainly able to take a dragon who's weaker than Alduin...

By that line of reasoning you better kill everyone in tamriel and then yourself.