They gave no reasoning in the game guide. They simply noted the changes, which is what a game guide does.

Honestly, it isn't that big of a deal. It's a small tweak that some people might enjoy, but that's not the problem. The problem is that they keep doing it, and there doesn't seem to be a line drawn at where they'll stop. That's what bothers me. The next game might be twice as bad, and the third could be completely ignorant of the lore (it isn't updated lore as much as it's the result of laziness and ignorance).

I don't want that to happen, and neither do many other people. The only way to give Bethesda a heads up to that is by constantly [censored]ing and moaning and flooding their forums with topics filled with rage -- which is the only thing that seems to work, and even then very rarely.

It makes sense to me.

There are a couple of indications in the lore that Redguards have considered magic to be a dishonorable way to fight, and that in particular they don't like Daedra related stuff. But if you read through their main lore pages, it doesn't mention that and doesn't say that they all hate magic. Maybe back in Oblivion days, people were complaining "That mage is exaggerating, Redguards don't hate magic that much, why are they ignoring the lore?"

It is not that much of an outrage to give them magic bonuses -- maybe their culture has changed in 200 years. But in any case, getting worked up about an imaginary "slippery slope" that will ruin the game that comes out in 2017, and "flooding the forums with rage", just would tend to make many people think that such enraged people take things way too seriously and should be ignored about everything. It is better just to make the point and leave it at that.

How does that change anything? The bonus still exists in the lore, unanswered.

I love the way how you bash persons with add for no reason. Also i haven't heard anyone saying that everyone should be able to do everything.

Wow are we really complaining about a plus 5 in two magic schools. Wow

Did you know that slavery was legal for more than 300 years in the USA, but adventually it got abolished?

Maybe you should write a letter to your local museum or something complaigning about how history changed and you think it should of stayed the same (and in this particular example, I would say you would be a compleate monster for doing so)

What makes even less sense is Imperials don't have a speechcraft bonus.

We are not complaining. We are questioning the reasoning behind this.

Redguards do dislike certain kinds of magic, namely Illusion and Conjuration. Meanwhile, few of them will turn their noses up at something like Destruction or Restoration.

The game doesn't have a problem, but it seems you have one.

You realize the magic they are profiecient with are NOT among the ones listed... right?

They are known to be very distrustful of magic so yeah, it is quite strange.

Those are the schools that Trayvond still has a prejudice against. He says "We don't much like spellcasters in Hammerfell. If you use magic, you're weak or wicked."

While the Redguards might not be the most heavily magic using race, they do have mages. In Redguard, the Prince had an Archmage working for him and in Daggerfall there were Mages Guilds in every major city. We might as well say Oblivion was the one that got it wrong by over-emphasizing their mage rage.

I guess part of the reason for the change might be the removal of stats like intelligence that was basically required to be a mage, so they could give races a wider variety of bonuses. I think it does help define the races a bit more to say "if your Redguard is going to be a mage, they might be more likely to use these schools" than to just say "they're fighters".

I already made a thread on this. It got no where near this many responses /jealous.

But in the end I think Oblivion might of been over looking the lore a bit. The Redguards only dislike magic such as illusion and necromancy. Bot the Crown and the Forebears.

This quote pretty much sums it up. There is no argument for Redguards suddenly being able to wield or accept magic as common practice when in every past game they have not had any magic bonuses, and do not like magic users.

Redgaurds society is almost completly based around swordplay and being a warrior.

But its not just Redguards, The imperials not having speech bonuses bothers me as well, as well as the Orcs suddenly having skill in enchanting.

Bethesda for some reason decided for this game to not follow any other the past games.

Welcome to Skyrim, where Redguards are good at magic, Imperials don't know how to influence people through speech, and Orcs are great enchanters. No where else in the world does this exist but in Skyrim. In no other game have these bonuses existed. There are no basis for the changes lore-wise and they don't make sense based on everything we know about the races in terms of lore.

And they are just fighters, and it wasn't just Oblivion, read the lore guys.

And even if it was in Oblivion, its in the game, so it must be true. Plus it makes sense, plus there is evidence for the reasoning.

This.

Technically Orcs should have skills in MAGIC. They have many shaman and mages. Yet you still hear some Orcs saying they don't use magic when the lore says otherwise. Bascially it's just a confusing thing. You really don't need to get this worked up.

Maybe Nords get the speech bonus because the game takes place in predominantly Nord lands, and who knows how to relate to a Nord better than another Nord?

Bretons get it too

It is good, very good, that the developers are not beholden to the lore. Lore can be just as bad as any other aspect of a game.

Who cares if they use magic, have you seen those warriors from Hammerfell? They have curved swords. Curved. Swords.

What an ass. You solicited comments and then flame someone because they disagreed with you? It is a reasonable thought...and then someone then pointed out that other races haven't changed. Also a reasonable thought and even better an argument against that train of thought....much better than "no (nicely done!!) what you are talking about before you say something stupid."
Hehe, no worries there, you seem to have that covered for everybody!

The Redguard CULTURAL disdain for magic stems from how legend accredits mages with basically destroying their home continent of Yokuda. That said, the further you get away from traditional redguard land, the less bound by tradition will everyone be. No, it's not very likely that you'll encounter a whole bunch of Redguard mages, but this isn't Hammerfell, it's Skyrim. It's not like there's no way in hell one of them couldn't decide to pick up magic, just still not extremely likely there'll be a bunch of them because of Skyrim's relatively dim view of magic as well.

Anyhow, your PC is potentially one Redguard. Maybe you're one of the ones that said "Hey, I wanna give it a shot anyway." but it isn't anywhere as restrictive as race-wide stereotyping might lead one to believe. Just because you're from a community of farmers doesn't mean you want to become a farmer, etc. etc.

This post is quite correct with its quote from Oblivion. It does illustrate how Redguards feel about magic and magic users. However, Tre is a Redguard. So, while, in general you won't find many Redguard magic users....they DO exist. He even retains-and acknowledges- his own feelings about magic users and therefor limits himself to specific types of magic. /shrug...makes sense, right? However, a player is a unique entity within this world. A 'super-man' that can have virtually no limits on what skills he wants to utilize. This is demonstrated by the player's ability to cast magic, wear plate armor and be an assassin/thief.....and hehe, even be Guildmaster of any or all of these seemingly cross-purposed organizations. As 'the' Super-Man(or woman) in your particular game, your toon can be whatever you chose to make it.....an honorable Khajit? A warrior high Elf? A warrior Breton? (I did one of these)...its all good whatever you want to make of it all......