Todd Howard just dropped this book into the game:

Why Redguards No Longer Hate Magic

It's a good read.

Lore repaired!!!!!!!!!!

Bretons actually make sense to have Speech; as one of them said, the Bretons "invented politics." As far as I can tell, this skill was placed there to replace the defunct Mysticism skill (all their other skills are the identical to Morrowind & Oblivion).

Redguard change is a mystery....but no where near as mysterious as how Imperials went from having good diplomacy to....healing magic?

Yeah, they dropped the ball with this and giving Imperials magic abilities as well.

Agreed, this is very odd and goes against typical TES lore. Redguards view magic as a tool for evil-doers, necromancers, and the weak. Saying the entire race now has a natural affinity for it is beyond strange, unless they're just trying to take the redguards in a whole new direction.

More like they just wanted it even easier for newbs, casuals, and the unreceptive to make JOATs, to sample and dabble without committing. Its disgusting.

Cheydinhaal, but you are correct; Redguards, according to Lore, do not use magic aside from the occasional exception.

You wouldn't want that, trust me.

iirc back on yokuda their shamans used their own system of magic, it inculded different destruction spells so i would think they would become a pretty magic-gifted race i they created their own system of magic that no other known race uses

edit: i found a qoute saying the anesi (most respected red guards) were "Yokuda was the scene of frequent warfare, and there are tales blaming the cataclysm on a rebel band of Ansei, magical swordsmen whose secret techniques are reputedly capable of such devastation" magical swordsmen, so they used magic, they made swords out of their own spirit using soem form of magic (speaking of spirit swords, wouldnt it be awsome to be able to do that in an expnasion?)

edit number two: "Many different magical arts have been developed during Tamrielic history for purposes ranging from warfare to technological advancement to religion and divination, such as the Redguards' Shehai Shen She Ru," more qoute about the redguard magic

Imperials not getting any speech bonuses, now that is messed up.

Redguards are like Jedi without the Mindtrick.

"Stop right there, criminal scum!"
"I am not the criminal scum you're looking for."
"You are the criminal scum I am looking for."
"..... Uh...."
"Your tricks do not affect the psychic guards of the Legion, Redguard!"

Imperials having speechcraft bonuses in the land of the Nords? They banished Talos worship. A Nord siding with the Empire or with the Stormcloaks.. they both don't take kindly to the change of worship. That seems like a plausible explanation at least.

I find it strange that they gave them those skills instead of retaining their armor proficiency.

Wait a second ... did someone say that Imperials don't have any bonus to Speech? When they've been set up as the best merchants and talkers in Tamriel? What is this, Bethesda?!?!?! What's next, are Orcs going to lose a bonus to Smithing, or Altmer to Destruction?

The Redguards' Sword-Singing has been likened to Thu'um magic (if you call Thu'um a school of magic). See http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1322890-sword-singing-and-thuum/.

They gave Redguards magic skill bonuses for the same reason Oblivion's "Nightblade" class got neither Sneak nor Illusion.

Because they let the friggin interns design it.

I'm making a redguard mage now, i hope thinking about it makes you squirm.

There was also Azani Blackheart, a very powerful Nightblade. Oh, let us not forget the few necromancers encountered in the game, also Chanel, Treyvond, etc.


Coincidentally Redguards gained the mercantile skill in Oblivion, with the obvious loss of medium armor from Morrowind. With the shrinking of available skills from game to game this change actually made some sense.

So what was the reasoning behind the latest change? Perhaps we'll never know, but I'm not all that put off by it. With only six skills within each archetype it may have been just a balance adjustment or maybe BGS "nudging" players to dabble in the new magic system. Of all the races in Skyrim it is only the Altmer that are strictly set to any archetype (magic).

As Savlian and many others have pointed out, it's like any stereotype; there will be exceptions. Hell, Orcs now have a bonus in enchanting. Talk about moving up in the world...

By the by, what's the Redguard racial ability called again?..."Black Power", yes? Just wondering.

Actually about most of the racials make little sense in regards to the lore of the races who get them. Dunmer do not even have any combat abilities as bonuses when they were aways renowned for their "balanced integration of the Sword, Bow and Magic". Now they are Sneaky mages...Yeah...

Imperials suddenly have a huge restoration bonus and are the most silvery tongued race yet have no speech bonus?

Redguards with magic?



Altmer do not resist disease when they are a race that selectively breeds to weed out imperfections.

Argonians cannot resist poison when they live in BLACK MARSH! The most poisonous province.

I could go on and on about this, and I have on other threads but it is simply game mechanics. Racials and bonuses do NOT reflect the cultures well at all lol.

I don't see what people are getting angry about.

Sure, most redguards hate magic, so what? That doesn't mean they couldn't be good at it if they tried.

I might be great at blowing dudes, but I'm most likely never gonna find out.

Imagine vampires being depicted as creatures that turn into bats during nights with fullmoon or werewolves being emo types that every now and again turn into cute little dogs when exposed to gold. Or how about zombies that aren't actually dead, dumb, slow, or interested in eating human flesh but simply turn pale during the night?

When some definition has been established through lore created over more than a decade, you expect a game based on said lore to actually reflect the lore somewhat accurately.

Did I FTFY?

...

*obligatory arrow to the knee*

Well said. But still. Game mechanics trumps Lore every time unfortunately.

I agree that a +5 bonus in magic schools are far off regarding lore. As a race that favor melee Bethesda should have given said bonuses to heavy armor and two handed