Ulfric is more Dragonborn than the Emperor. Not to mention that Ulfric actually does want to protect Skyrim and its native inhabitants, the men. He also is an honorable person, as shown in the peace council in the main quest. While Tullius is busy making demands, Ulfric only makes one demand: control of Markarth. And when Tullius blames the Dragonborn for losing Markarth and demands compensation for Ulfric's attacks on a town, Ulfric does so without blaming the Dragonborn and actually wants a fair agreement.

But Tullius sounds like the John F. Kennedy from Call of Duty Black Ops and the Empire wants to get rid of the Thalmor all over the Empire, not just Skyrim like the Stormcloaks. So I support the Empire. But unlike other Empire guys, I don't bash the Stormcloaks. I actually admire their leader's determination to get rid of the Thalmor.

here's my question, wasn't it said that the Thalmor do not want an empire victory too soon, and that the bloody altmer were trying to stop Ulfric's execution for that reason?

that is false. the thalmor are making the empire crack down on it and the thalmor constantly drag ppl away to be questioned and imprisoned,

The empire is no longer the great empire it once was. It has FALLEN.

the support the empire is to increase the thalmor's strength.

the Thalmore fully intend to show MEN that MER are superior.

It is written in the Ulfric dossier that they want neither side to win. An unending and preferably bloody war is what the Thalmor is trying to engineer.

Edit: It says: "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed."

I found Jarl Elisif's court in Solitude to be a very depressing place. Like when I discovered how much the late High King Torygg admired Ulfric. Or heard it said that Torygg might well have claimed independence if Ulfric had asked him to.

Instead, Ulfric challenged the boy king to a duel he could not refuse, then threw the country into a civil war when he realized the Moot would not uphold his claim. Freedom fighter my ass.

Thats weird, Tullius was one being agreeable in my game and Ulfric was acting like a immature brat. Did you join the Stormcloaks at first before the peace council or did you give the Imperials the shaft during the peace council? Such as giving up Markarth for Winterhold ,which is regraded as a useless hold or giving Hjaalmarch to Stormcloaks?

I think he's in it for himself, and only cares about Nords, so not really :/

No he made me hate nords and if I help him then the thalmor will win in the end..

This

He wants a Skyrim for Nords only, which means elves, Imperials, Redguard, etc, any non-Nord would be faced with prejudice and never-ending discrimination under his rule. Not only that, I killed him on the principle that Brunwulf Free-Winter would take the throne as Jarl and clean up his dying city, specifically the Grey-Quarter.

People complain about marriage and children, so i figure slaughtering them is a rather kind act.

first off, they HAD to make ulfric hard to like. otherwise, noone would choose the imperials side without prior knowledge of the lore. and with prior knowledge of lore, it doesnt really matter how bad each side is... if ulfric was in any way likable, theres be no reason to choose the imperials.


as for me, i dont mind him at all. a nord wanting skyrim for the nords is perfectly fine. also, he does not kill off elves. he may keep them separate from the others but he doesnt disallow them to live in skyrim.

remember, elves CAN live in skyrim and do just fine. many of them do. look at the high elf in windhelm (niranye). she has absolutely no issues living there. theres plenty of other elves owning their own shops in other cities. in fact, u'd be hardpressed to find a city without an elf doing very well for himself...

with the thalmor in his backyard, it makes sense that there's discrimination against the elves. hell, the USA did the exact same thing to the japanese during the war.

when the thalmor are no longer a major threat, im sure the elves will be treated better.

Everytime I see a thread like this, and I see 20 a day, I want to punch myself in the face so I can't read it

Well if you play both sides of the story you kinda see more of a different light really. For instance as an Imperial soldier you get told the entire time that ulfric is a power hungry monster who only wants power and would do anything for it.

But really if you play stormcloak it simply isn't true. You missed the part where he is basically a very old fashion nord. He even says that he would gladly part from the world if there was a day freedom could be fought without violence. He doesn't go on massacres. He is old fashioned and he believes in the nord people and the nord people alone. That makes him racist yes but not in the sense he is going to outright go on a killing spree against other races. He just believes nords are the strongest and that they should rule themselves.

He also wishes to become high king because he truly believes he would make a true high king in the old fashion sense. Strong and the ability to lead his people to victory and strengthen them as a whole he does not do it really just for power he does it so the nords can rule themselves. He even says he wants the jarls to have their birth right to rule their holds and not be under the empires paycheck.

Both sides have Good and bad in them which just makes them flat out grey. Ulfrics beliefs don't make him right but in reality either choice you make weakens both sides regardless.

The empire want to reunite skyrim under imperial law so that they will remain strong and someday fight the Aldmeri dominion.

The Stormcloaks believe the empire is weak and no longer deserves skyrim to help fight for them. And they believe they can fight the thalmore on their own as a united strong nation.

Either choice you make in the story makes both sides true. If you defeat the stormcloaks you stop the war and let the empire take back skyrim. To the ends that they would rebuild and fight the thalmor and Aldmeri dominion.

You side with the stormcloaks and you prove that skyrim is a strong nation capable of fighting off the empire on it's own which basically shows that the empire was indeed weak and not worth it.

Empire serves the people man orc or mer and it expects loyalty in return period. Without them skyrim would of been a barbaric place. The empire came in and cleaned it up.

The stormcloaks believe the only way to stop the true enemies of man the aldmeri dominion they believe the only way to save their people is to protect themselves with strength of arm.

so really both sides have their points I love to roleplay of course so in reality it's what ever you guys want to think and I totally agree on this point haha makes the game more fun and enjoyable.

I for one usually try and stick to the lore and actual facts and play along with the world rather than alter the reality of it but that's just me and I think all kinds of RP is fun and great.


PS. holy crap another big text wall sorry

It's that voice. I want to have six with it.

Watch the 13th Warrior. Ulfric, Ralof and Antonio Banderas are in it

I like him for his ideals: freedom, independence for Skyrim, strong leadership, etc.

But then there's his lack of concern for the deplorable treatment of the elves.

Yet I still can't help but be swayed slightly by his inspiring speech. But I don't know if his belief in his supposedly noble cause justifies killing a king and turning a blind eye to persecution.

Well, I hate the Thalmor more than Ulfric, and at least it's not like he actually becomes Emperor at the end. He did allow the existing Jarl of Solitude to remain in power.

However, he shouldn't discriminate against all elves simply because the Thalmor are complete and utter d-bags in my opinion.

why does everyone keep mentioning his treatment of the elves as a negative. look at niranye in windhelm. talk to her a bit. she'll tell u all u need to know.

living as an elf IN WINDHELM is manageable and she has no issues at all. in the heart of the problem, where the gray quarter is located, she still manages to live there and have the respect of the city.

he has the thalmor to work with and he has to be suspicious of all elves. if they prove themselves and show that they're loyal, they get treated fairly. until then, they can complain all they want...

the entire problem is people not proving themselves. talk to rolff. he asks what the elves have done for skyrim? and u know what? they havent done much. they dont fight for skyrim alongside the elves. they just sit there complaining. at least niranye is a decent merchant and gained respect that way. the rest of the useless elves can rot away.

It's because he only appears to care about the Nords, and ignores others under his rule.

The Thalmor are completely ruthless, though.

Do people just believe everything you read and not consider the source? The Bear of Markarth is written by an Imperial scholar, and in the last paragraph they're obviously licking the Thalmor's gonads by saying they couldn't withstand Ulfric's demand to restore Talos worship in Markarth because he's such a horrible guy. Pah. I am sure Ulfric probably did execute Forsworn, but they aren't any better. Madanach talks about painting the walls with Nord blood.

The Stormcloaks also have the downfall of the Dominion as their goal. Galmar Stone-Fist says this several times, that they plan to take the war to the Dominion and that Skyrim will lead the other peoples in fighting them.

I can't get past reading the Thalmor file on Ulfric.

You have to choose the lesser of two evils. But it's up to you to decide which is less. Neither option is appealing. When I first heard that you can choose either imperial or rebel, I figured they wouldn't make it a "black and white/good vs evil" thing- that'd be too simple. Chances are there would be shades of gray; both sides would be 'good' in their own manner... And this is true, but what gives it a twist is that Bethesda made both sides completely wretched.

He's a Czech-Canadian in fact. But I still don't like him.