The loss of so many Altmer lives in the Great war probably had a much larger effect on them then they allow people to know. They lost everyone in Imperial Territory with the Battle of the Red ring. We have no evidence the Dominion use the Bosmer or Khajiit as anything more than servants. And the Elves compared to humans have a much lower population and birth rate. Those Altmer mages and warriors wont be replaced anytime soon. And this is one reason why I think they agreed to sign the peace treaty. If they truly had the ability to continue the war they would have. They destroyed 3 legions and sacked the Imperial city, if they had enough Mer to repeat this and actually snuff out the Empire there was nothing stopping them. The Thalmor clearly have zero pity for human kind and wish to only dominate them, why sign the peace treaty when that goal is nearly accomplished?

So no the Altmer are the ones who truly lost the war imo. Its fairly evident that they aren't as powerful as they were in the Great war when they were expelled from Hammerfell. The invalids being left in Hammerfell from my point of view was a way to tell us that the Imperial General gave the Redguard under his command the chance to stay and fight for their homeland. And to be fair many of the warriors of Tamriel are current legion or ex legion. So saying the legion saved Hammerfell is only a half truth. Also the 5 year war had no Imperial aid at all, yet Hammerfell still fought the Dominion to a stand still. Its not like the Dominion couldn't ferry in more warriors, being that the island is pretty much right next to Hammerfell.

So for the past 25 years the Dominion has been trying to weaken the Empire by showing dissent among the Provinces. So when they finally do have the numbers again, the Empire wont have the Nords to bail them out again.

I wonder how large the two Dominion armies were, so we could get a proper head count on their dead. Do we know the actual number of Imperial Legions? Because with 3 legions destroyed and assuming they are built like Roman legions that's a confirmed 15,000 dead Imperial soldiers. I'm guessing there was probably 10 or 12 legions before the war and with that, that's around 37,500 dead Imperial soldiers. This is also without the Imperial and Redguard civilian deaths. So about as many Imperial soldiers died in this war as some countries had in the second world war. Sadly we don't have population of the Provinces.

As cold as this is about to sound I think the Humans could afford this more easily than the Elves could. A lot more people would of died before this war ended but in the long term the Humans would of out lasted the Dominion. Two of the Imperial Provinces were willing to pay this price, Skyrim and Hammerfell. The two martial nations in the Empire were willing to continue the war and yet the Empire let one go and is about to lose the second.

The future of Tamriel is going to become interesting if the Empire falls

PS I still maintain the Nords are more than capable of defending themselves from the Dominion

After a couple pints in the pub last night, with my mate, (I have joined the Imperials, and he - the Stormcloaks) we both came to this conclusion: Ulfric is a bit of a tw**.

Not much else I can put forward.

Well, looking back at tes4, we could see that there isn't much of an Imperial army or influence even in their own province.

I'm just kidding, I actually agree with you there.

That film was underrated. Kulich was amazing as Buliwyf, with his death scene being one of the most bad ass sequences ever.

It really was

I think the Thalmor are using the Legion to wipe out the Stormcloaks, after which they won't have any use for them. They are the real enemy.

Thalmor

I really wanted to like him at first. I had one (stillbirthed) playthrough where I sided with them and instantly regreted it. Both he and his general (the guy in furs) seemed a little too scheming.. like politicians. Not badass Nord heroes. While the Stormcloaks soldiers themselves come off very slavish.

"For Ulfric! And Skyrim!"


Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I'd think a true rebel movement would have a better battlecry than just shouting one guy's name. If my character was real, he would have been facepalming through every Stormcloak battle. And it's never clear why he's even admired or the "rightful king" in the first place. Why are they so devoted to him? He's not a great war hero or some living legend. All he did was kill a king - one who was sympathetic to him. And as far as the Voice goes, that doesn't make him special either. When you climb to High Hrothgar, all the tablets point to how the Voice can be abused. He isn't necessarily more "Nord" for having it than, for example, Rikke or Baalgruf, who don't have it.

They are forcing us two equally bad choices, but I support the Empire as despite its oppressive laws it doesn't kill anyone. Better live your hands tied than die free. Dying for liberty is a nice idea but would you really toss your life away for some petty principles? I wouldn't. Everything was fine when the Empire ruled Skyrim, the Dominion is a whole another problem.

I favor the stormcloaks only when my character is a nord, seeing is how the stormcloaks dislike the other races.

I respect the RPing, but don't follow the reasoning exactly. Why do you have to do that as a Nord? Nords have always intermingled with the rest of the Empire.

And like I mentioned, the Stormcloaks don't even seem to be much about Nords. It's about Ulfric. Stormcloaks started off as his own private military force, and their battlecries revolve around Ulfric. And ultimately, only Nords lose from all of this conflict. They're killing each other on both sides. Like the game's own trailer says in it's opening, "The sons of Skyrim are spilling each other's blood".

I agree. This falls into the "not all Germans were Nazis" category. Hadvar is a Nord (I think) and he's loyal to the core. The Legion commander woman is Nord. Loads upon loads of Legion troopers are nords.

I thought the Captain woman was Imperial. I could be wrong though.

But yeah, it's not just Nords vs. Imperials. There are plenty of Nords who disagree with Ulfric's ideals. My Nord included.

Who I referred to is the woman doing Tullius' dirty work and who the player chiefly works for if joining the Legion.
I recall she had a very nordic name, while Imperials tend to have Italian-style names (like Avenicci).


The Imperial Captain, who oversees your execution, appears to be Redguard. She does at least have considerably reddish skin, is a warrior and I understand Redguards tend to favor the Empire.

Rikke (Danish)- Short for Frederikke, feminine version of Frederik - meaning peaceful ruler.
Hammerfell hasn't been a part of the Empire for 30 years. After the peace treaty with the Thalmor, the Redguards probably don't favour the Empire all that much.

Legate Rikke. She worships Talos too.

Funnily, I'm playing a Nord who doesn't have strong opinions about Talos... even though, ironically, I bet the Dragonborn is embued with the spirit of Talos himself (or something like that). So why would he worship his own self?

Or at the very least, I see him as someone who becomes a bit too familiar with either the supernatural, the Divines, or both..more than the average person. I don't view him acting so passionate about the subject.

What he does care about is protecting humans from the Thalmor. Priorities, priorities.. and as far as I'm concerned, it's kind of weakening if you side with some self-interested Jarl who likes to punk out his king just because he can, and make you go on scavenger hunts for ancient crowns, just so he can "symbolically" appear like some oldschool Nordic royal figure. All the while riling up a bunch of Nords to die for him and kill other Nords, as if Imperials are the true threat. This kind of political behavior leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Yes, I've always sided with the Stormcloaks. He sticks to the old Nord ways, allows free worship andis strong enough to defend Skyrim, unlike the Empire who will roll over for the Thalmor when asked.

The Thalmor aren't even a factor worth considering. Why? Because I'm the [censored] Dragonborn, that's why, and whoever I side with will defeat them.

I had my Imperial join the Stormcloaks. He eventually ended up becoming Ulfric's left hand, and he hopes to help temper his racist tendencies.

Before that, the Empire presented itself as weak, not to mention a bit corrupted when they decided to execute your character just because.

Ahem. To paraphrase Sam Vimes, the worst things start to happen after good men follow bad orders, believing they can soften the blow. (Admittedly, this argument works against supporting the empire as well.)

To those who fail to grasp why anyone follows Ulfric: have you no poetry in your soul? Maybe its the Irish in me, but his cause calls to my heart. Yeah, he's a bit of a twerp, but he has his good points too.

As for the pragmatic side of the question.

* Rikke serves because she believes (correctly, I should point out) that the Thalmor are the true enemy, and a united empire is better able to resist them. A reasonable position. As painful as the White Tower accord is, she regards it as a temporary tactical withdrawl. Much like the Emperor's decision to abandon the Imperial City during the Great War. (A decision that the only lore I have seen indicates was vindicated.)

* Others side with the Stormcloaks so that people of Skyrim can be freed from Thalmor agents running an Inquisition, taking people away for 'questioning' (read: torture) for worshipping Talos. A government that fails to protect its people is a government that cannot expect to retain the loyalty of its people. (As the Thalmor knew well, hence their demands, which among other things were designed to produce internal dissention in the empire.)

"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
— Voltaire

x2, the new Jarl is already set to work on renovating the "Grey Quarter" and nudging the people of the city to allowing Argonians and Khajits in the city. If Ulfric were left alone or worse, allowed to reign over the province, his racist and segregated ways would apply to everyone.

He isn;t as much as a dike as I thought he would be. I still prefer the empire though.

Wat. Did you miss the whole opening animation where they were going to cut your head off just because the officer was having a bad day?

But, but.... this is medieval power politics. It's not pretty, but it's realistic. Germanic kings were chosen on the basis of who was the greatest war leader. It's a pragmatic thing. The survival of your people depends on having a strong leader. Torygg was weak, he was a puppet of the empire, and since the empire are puppets of the Thalmor, that had become an unacceptably grave risk to the survival of the Nords. He had to go. By using the thu'um, Ulfric demonstrates that the Nords have power that they are not using, that the entire society has voluntarily weakened itself and become complacent, and that it better wake the **** up or it will be too late.

As far as the crown, Ulfric thinks it's a bit silly, but Galmar is right to insist that Ulfric bank on his image as a restoration of the ancient Nord kings. In some ways Galmar is more of a politician than Ulfric is. The mantle of power and a certain amount of popular adulation and fear are all things that help your cause. Ulfric needs to win and win decisively, or else the conflict will drag on and the Thalmor will have their way.

Since they are now in bed with the Thalmor, the Imperials are a true threat.

I'm playing a Nord who grew up in the Imperial City, decides to come back to Skyrim after the treaty was signed and seek out the Stormcloaks. After Helgen and discovering she is Dovahkiin, she starts to think that it was fate that Talos brought her there. So she's a bit of a born-again Talos worshipper. She sees him as a role model, like a divine big brother. The fact that they are mystically connected is all part of the appeal. It's been fun. I have her visit the Talos shrine on the mountain above Windhelm frequently. I imagine that she sits up there and tries to collect her thoughts about all the chaos around her. It's incidentally very beautiful up there!