Yes. People fail to look at the bigger picture, and they even cite Hammerfell as an example for why Skyrim can defend itself against the Aldmeri Dominion on its own. I have posted numerous times on this why this doesn't make any sense (actually read the Hammerfell situation--mostly Imperial troops who were purposely labeled wrong as "injured" or "invalid" to be left behind to help defend, AFTER the Aldmeri were devastated in a previous engagement/series of engagements by Imperial troops, AND the Altmer don't deal well with desert specifically). Ulfric can barely deal with a half-power single legion, and the Dominion fought against ten full-force legions, decimating three if I recall properly. At the beginning of the game, Ulfric has 1/3 of the map? Come on, Skyrim cannot defend reasonably against the Dominion. Sorry, this isn't realistic.

A long, drawn-out civil war is what the Aldmeri Dominion wants, with Skyrim ultimately barely winning so the Dominion can divide and conquer (Ulfric will not help the Empire if the Dominion goes after it, and the Empire will likely be violating their treaty to help Skyrim if Skyrim gets invaded).

If a decisive victory has to happen, the Dominion would naturally prefer Stormcloak victory. It plays to their favor.

Valenwood and Elsewyr are under Dominion control/subjugation. High Rock is not known for its military strength (although the Orcs from that general area are great). The Southern half of Hammerfell is devastated (even WITH all of the things going for them that I cited above, they still had half of their province decimated... so they're no help to the Empire anymore AND they weren't fighting anyhwere near the scope of Dominion military strength that the Empire itself was). Morrowind is mostly destroyed, and the Black Marsh wasn't going to be much use anyway. My point is that all we're basically looking at is Cyrodiil/Skyrim to defend all of non-mer-kind from the High Elves subjugating everyone on the continent. Dividing the two most significant entities is a lose-lose, except to the Dominion.

Yes, a decisive Skyrim victory might be better than a drawn-out, slow Imperial victory, but neither are optimal. Decisive Imperial victory provides the best chance against the Dominion.

Furthermore:

1) the poor decision-making of a single member of the Imperial Legion does not mean we should judge the Empire as a whole--it may be indicative of systemic problems with the Empire, yes, but I don't think we can condemn the Empire for it. Here, I'm referencing the attempted execution of you at the beginning.

2) the Empire's banning of Talos worship was only done because the Empire had no choice. Initially, this demand was refused (among others) and that's how "The Great War" started. The Empire needed to buy time to prepare for inevitable war again with the Dominion, and they had to accept terms they didn't like. No enforcement of this ban on Talos really happened until Ulfric Stormcloak made a huge fuss about it, which enabled the Dominion to pressure the Empire into allowing Thalmor agents to run all willy-nilly in Skyrim hunting Talos-worshippers. If the Dominion were defeated, the Empire would not ban Talos worship.

So, perhaps trying to form the best chance to save man-kind (and beast-kind, if you will) from genocide and subjugation should take first priority? One this is done, if the Empire refused to lift the ban on Talos worship, I'm all for Skyrim independence, then.

QFT

A thousand times this. And your avatar is kicken

The Leader of the empire is a complete Badass....Why does everyone think he is weak!

Stormcloak forever. I'd rather fight for freedom than be a lapdog for the Altmer.

So yes, I do like Ulfric. His conversation about the war with his general was all I needed to hear.

Don't let the name "Rebels" fool you. This isn't Star Wars. Think of the US Civil War.

He was a lot of fun to fight. Tullius, his leggate(spelling bad I know) and my hired hitter, 2h wielding stenvar all approached from left side of table I approached from the right. He "shout" scattered the other 3 and moved up the left side.
I was wearing the "reduce shout cooldown" amulet so we began a shout war across the table. Cheese and tankards became lethal projectiles.
However he wears zero armor so it took 1 hit to down him. More fun then satisfying

Just to add an annoyance I've had with pro-Stormcloak arguments. I've heard people simultaneously arguing:

• The Dominion sent an additional army (or armies) to Hammerfell during the extra five years of fighting there
  
• The Empire had the Dominion on the run after the Battle of the Red Ring, but they surrendered anyway when they signed the Concordat.

I shouldn't have to explain this, but they can't both be true. Either the Dominion was capable of raising a third army in that five year period, in which case they had a definite advantage over the Empire's crippled Legions, or they were in a similarly poor condition to the Empire, and Titus II could arguably have leveraged better terms. If the Dominion had enough soldiers remaining that they could raise a third army, they could use that force to further crush Titus's remaining Legions, thus compelling Titus II to accept poor terms; if they were unable to raise a third army, then the difficulty the Redguards faced in dislodging the last Dominion forces speaks poorly to Skyrim's capacity to survive without the Empire.

Since when are the other races of Tamriel pro-racial harmony? Ya'll loved it when the Dunmer were racist

The Stormcloaks is really the only good choice you can make between the two groups. The Empire sounds like the NCR all over again.

anywayy i joined the imperials and when we invanded windhelm i soultrapped him taking his soul a stabbing him through the back and with his soul i enchated it to a iron dagger and put in a case:)

Making the situation in Skyrim out to be similar to the US Civil war is not only historically shaky as the specific circumstances are not similar, but difficult to understand in terms of logic. Can you try to explain how I should think of the US Civil War when examining the Stormcloaks and the Empire? I ask because I see absolutely no defining parallel; every 'civil war' by definition is a break-off by a domestic group that wants to change government policies in some way or to seize power, so the US Civil War is not a viable example for considering the Skyrim situation on that premise. Also, the pressures on the US South were not due to a war lost to a rival as are the issues with the Empire and the Aldmeri

ULFRIC STORMCLOAK IS A FRICKEN THALMOR SLEEPER AGENT! But anyways I think that the Civil war Was very grey in a way. The Cons just wanted to be a separte country! BAH Amercians, Got your asses kicked during the war of 1812....Heheheheh

I like him hes BADASS

Number one, that has nothing to do with the US Civil War

Number two, you have no idea of what you're talking about in an historical context so please, spare me the "bah Americans" tripe. This is a game forum, not an 'air your real-world nationalistic prejudices' forum. Go to a political forum, join up, PM me the address and I'll talk to you later

I like him hes BADASS

while i generally agree, u have to remember, the altmer dont deal with the skyrim landscape well either. theres no1 better than the nords at fighting on this landscape. the altmer will have a terrible time just trying to navigate the mountains, let alone the giants/mammoths and potentially dragons.

in a straight army vs army battle, i have no doubt the dominion has a good shot a things. but a war of attrition and forcing them to go on the offensive in this hostile terrain, i dont think so.




i do wish this wasnt the very first thing that happened. id have probably joined the imperials if not for this one act.

Something to note... the Thalmor would likely seek to wipe out the existing religions if they took over Skyrim... which means wiping out the Way of the Voice, which means wiping out the Greybeards, which means angering Paarthurnax, which means provoking the wrath of quite a few dragons.

I know the Greybeards are hippies and everything, but I still don't see them allowing the Thalmor to attempt to wipe out the Way of the Voice. If they were to get involved the Thalmor wouldn't stand a chance. I mean, they can destroy entire continents just by coughing too loudly.

Not to mention dragons. A single dragon could easily trigger an avalanche, which would be quite deadly in a narrow pass.


I can see it now....

We have the Thalmor's main force entering Skyrim through a narrow mountain pass, with a avalanche falling upon them and dragons swooping down and obliterating them from above with the Greybeards and other users of the Voice shouting at the Thalmor.

And it is glorious.

This is all assuming that they Greybeards/dragons/Paarthurnax aren't destroyed by the Dovahkiihn in lore.

And that the Thalmor somehow lose their plot armor.

And the Greybeards develop a sense of self-preservation.

The way I see the whole civil war thing, you're either supporting a total bigot, or a puppet government run by total bigots. I went with the Stormcloaks since they didn't try to kill me.

No, Ulfric isn't. He initially accepted help because he was in a tight spot and had no choice. Since then, the Thalmor have considered him a useful - if an extremely dangerous and hard to manipulate - tool who is to be approached with extreme caution, if at all. The dossier made it clear that Ulfric had no intention of helping the Thalmor, and it implied that he would very much like to shout them into the ground.

Also, this?

The Cons just wanted to be a separte country! BAH Amercians, Got your asses kicked during the war of 1812....Heheheheh

Classy.

Well you could say that the Stormcloaks believe that their rights are being infringed upon just like the South thought that the Federal Government infringing on their rights by restricting slavery in the Western States. Except instead of war over slavery and states rights its a war over Nord rights and religion. Yeah its not entirely the same, but it was some similarity. But as you said it can be compared to any civil war.

Anyway, I don't like Ulfric at all. I think that he is using the war to fuel his own political ambitions. I admire his cause, but it could have been avoided peacefully. I think even Alvor, the blacksmith in Riverwood, says that the before Ulfric started the rebellion the laws from the White-Gold Concordat were only loosely enforced and that the the Thalmor weren't going around arresting people for Talos worship.

I liked him at first, then he started to seem like a giant ass.

I, myself, am completly disgusted with the Empire. They sent dozens to their death in the Great War but won against the Thalmor, for what? So that they could sign a treaty with the Thalmor giving up pretty much the same rights the Thalmor wanted them to give up before the Great War started. All of those who died in the Great War, died for NOTHING. When Tiber Septim had to face the Aldmerri Dominion, did he give up like a punk? No, he dominated. Even presently, Hammerfell already basically said "screw the Empire, their a bunch of pansies" and left the Empire and kicked the Thalmor out.

The Empire believes that they can not contend with the Thalmor. In their mind, they have already lost. Hammerfell said "screw that noise" and are holding their own. Skyrim just wants to do the same. Cyrodiil has become the weakest piece of crap country out of all of Tameriel. I'd rather live in jacked up Morrowind with all of it's problems that Red Mountain and the Saxhleel left in it's wake.

When I looked at the sides of the civil war, I saw it as either I support the mer (Empire) or I support man (Stormcloaks). Is Ulfrich jacked up? Yea, he's a bigot, but he's the best hope Skyrim has, and if Skyrim can be liberated from the Thalmor, they can at least set an example to Cyrodiil and show that it CAN be done.

For nothing? No, they died for the very land they still live in today, for their families who still breathe and for their future generations.

It was said that the MAIN Aldmeri Dominion army was defeated in Cyrodiil, while 3 Legions were decimated with only 2 Legions at less than 50% strength left. The Dominion may well have more troops behind their main army, and the Legion might not have been able to withstand such an attack. Also, the Capital of the Empire was in ruins while Summerset Isle was basically untouched; if the Great War was not brought to an end the Dominion is in a much better position to rebuild itself and attack again. The Empire has to focus to rebuilding it's farms, towns, etc. while the Aldmeri simply need to rebuild their armies.