Does Bethesda not value critism or fan feedback at all? : V - Skyrim

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:07 pm

That's one thing. Show me all the complaints that were made about spell making. Complaints that were made about the journal from Morrowind. Suggestions that we ABSOLUTELY need less information regarding quests and more hand-holding. They are simplifying the franchise, and have been ever since Oblivion (even in Morrowind, but to a lesser extent).

Yes I understand that it's one thing, but what you guys were suggesting was that "Bethesda did not address even one complaint." And to be fair, creating all the dungeons to be completely unique and handcrafting the world instead of using a terrain generator is a pretty big "thing." That obviously took a lot of work to get done. They didn't need to handcraft the dungeons or the world and that is obvious from how well Oblivion sold...

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:16 pm

Yes I understand that it's one thing, but what you guys were suggesting was that "Bethesda did not address even one complaint." And to be fair, creating all the dungeons to be completely unique and handcrafting the world instead of using a terrain generator is a pretty big "thing." That obviously took a lot of work to get done. They didn't need to handcraft the dungeons or the world and that is obvious from how well Oblivion sold...

Beth handcrafted if I recall most if not all of Morrowind's Dungeons and yet the Quests/Dialogue/Story was all fantastic.
It's like they're intentionally going backwards.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:06 pm

I think the problem is that Bethesda wants to please its long-term fans, but they want bags of cash even more.

For this reason they still try to cater to everyone (especially consoles) by simplifying their games and the long term fans and detail can go out the window.

Consoles bring in the dosh! Luvly jubbly.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:47 am

I do agree with the repetitiveness when it comes to random encounters. It svcks. I've seen 20 redguard women in the middle of nowhere being ordered to come home by Alik'r. I've seen 20 clones wanting to join the Stormcloaks only to disappear in the gates. M'aiq is always just standing there, like he just spawned for my pleasure.

In Oblivion, NPCs would wander and have their own lives in the wilderness. You could encounter M'aiq anywhere, because he was running between cities, not because he spawned.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:05 am

I don't see how you're bored, honestly. Ive had two characters so far, one a level 40 with 150 hours on it, and another level 28 with 49 hours. On my first one, I just finished the civil war quests, and haven't even found all shouts or masks.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:31 pm

I don't see how you're bored, honestly. Ive had two characters so far, one a level 40 with 150 hours on it, and another level 28 with 49 hours. On my first one, I just finished the civil war quests, and haven't even found all shouts or masks.

Because, while it's a great big sand box it's also a very shallow sandbox, once you start digging there ain't much beneath the surface.

It's not that there isn't enough content; it's that the content is shallow, dull, not fleshed out, and becomes tedious and repetetive after awhile. Before I was even 20 hours into the game I had already seen every enemy type other than the dragon priest and every dungeon type, dragons are all clones, 90% of the loot you find in this game is useless so treasure hunting doesn't even feel fun, the smithing/enchanting system is flawed, traveling by foot yields very little excitement... I fast travel because I don't feel I am missing out on anything worthwhile, the AI svcks, the world and NPC's have very little reaction to any of your major accomplishments, nothing you do really impacts or changes the world, combat difficulty is unbalanced through and through, follower system is a step backwards.

Yah, great game, great sandbox but if you only care about the superficial then yes I'm sure the game can be enjoyable for 300+ hours... me I was getting bored by 60; I stopped playing to wait for patches and mods.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:20 am

I have trouble getting past level 20. With some broken quest that have yet to be fixed, by the time I finish with The Mage's College, Solitude and Markarth, I am bored and starting a new game. I have yet to complete the main quest and really am not in any hurry to--nor, do I have the desire to. I have been really thinking about Fallout New Vegas and Dragon Age Origins. I have several games there yet to be completed. In fact, every day I look to see if the modders have updated their mods that I have installed in all three games. I suppose when you get right down to it is all me and my lack of interest or enthusiasm with Skyrim. Something is definitely missing.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:29 am

The only thing that I agree with at all in the OP is that the characters are generally forgettable. Not all of them, but most folks.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:46 pm

The OP is correct, in that Bethesda doesn't listen to the hordes of the irritating "Me-me-Gimmie-gimmie-Mine-mine!" crowd, but instead, follows through with reasoned requests and feedback.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:32 pm

I am curious. Skyrim is a great game, not disputing that but it seems like nearly everything fan's complained about in regards to Oblivion is still ever present in Skyrim... You would think this may have been a good opportunity to improve on certain weaknesses and show fans you're actually evolving rather then putting a shiny new skin on Oblivion and changing the setting.

-Story is still weak
-Most characters are forgettable
-Modders are fixing bugs and making balancing tweaks at a much faster pace and more successful then any official patches.
-Nothing you do in the world seems to matter or have any noticeable impact including completing major quest lines; making the world seem very dull and lifeless and rarely does anyone or the world react to what you have done.
-Repetitive content throughout the world. Beyond level 30 I feel as if I am doing the same things over and over again. "Go here, kill some draugr, go here, kill some bandits... oh look a dragon!"
-Poor level scaling and balancing
-Anti-climactic conclusions to most major quest lines
-Traveling by foot offers almost no rewards or excitement other than sight seeing.
-AI is almost just as bad as it's always been throughout Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas
-Under developed follower system.

Seriously these are pretty much the same complaints rampant in Oblivion; is Bethesda incapable of evolving or anything that could be considered innovative?

I was having a lot of fun with the game until around level 30 at around 50 hours... After that my interest started to plummet due to the reasons mentioned above

I do enjoy the game but I can't help but feel Bethesda learned absolutely nothing between the release of Oblivion and the release of Skyrim.

Agree with: story could be better think Oblivion had better quests and most characters are pretty forgetable, again Oblivion had stronger characters, feel that many are not fleshed out enough and because they want to tell their one line story each time you come close to them you want to avoid them.
Yes moders fix bugs faster simple reason, less bureaucracy, more focus on single issues and more moders than employees.
Followers could be better, miss the command wheel in New Vegas and the default equipment is broken, why it worked well in fallout 3?

However:
Hard to have much impact in an open world, Fallout broken steel was good here and pretty much how much is realistic. Yes they could end the game and show an impressive video of changes then done with the main quest.
+300 hours and everything start get repetitive.
Think level scaling is much better than Fallout 3, who was way better than Oblivion and Morrowind.
Traveling on foot let you discover new locations, various random encounters in addition to hunting mining and picking ingredients. That did you expect? random encounters with nvde nymphs?

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:59 pm

I agree with alot of what the OP is saying. Pretty much all Skyrim has goign for it is eyecandy. Dungeon aside from a few notable ones are almost the same generic set by tiles and monsters as you can get. A dragur dungeon is a dragur dungeon is a dragur dungeon after you found a few of them. Faction quests are almost to a default stupidly short and your advancement in them is also at a lolcopter pace most of the time. Some are quite litterally do three quests and some random guy then says "your now master of the guild!" so now your master of the guild. the civil war quest was THE SAME you just fight a different set of spawned enemies. The MQ was pretty bad. Al lthe followers are the same except if they are a warrior or a mage type many of them have backstory that constitutes little then "give gold/do mundane task" option to follow is open..

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:22 pm

I have to disagree with the AI complaint. In oblivion I had to deal with idiot mages attacking me like they were swordsmen, Skyrim they actually fights like mages! They made destruction much easier to level up with. I like the constant stream effect with the beginners spells, who didn't put on black robes and duel wield lighting to feel like a sith lord? My point is they did correct a lot of the mistakes from Oblivion, though the game does feel a lot emptier. One problem I have with both games is being made guild master of every single guild "You've been here for 2 weeks and have proven more competent than all of us!" just not realistic. And I'll just hold back from the large number of complaints I have with Skyrim, specifically in the writing department.
though the guy right above me covered pretty much everything. Though to add, my biggest gripe was the brotherhood "go here...KILL THIS GUY" what no poison, no planning an accident, no nothing? No sneaking by undectected? There were no quests in Skyrim that I felt an urge to start a third character for to go through all of them again, no urge to load up an earlier save game to play them. Oblivion despite its flaws I can name a good number of quests I enjoyed doing. The Shivering Isles expansion my god was that a ride.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:01 am

The OP is correct, in that Bethesda doesn't listen to the hordes of the irritating "Me-me-Gimmie-gimmie-Mine-mine!" crowd, but instead, follows through with reasoned requests and feedback.

And those would be...?
Go ahead kiddo. If you think you can go around and insult people, than you better have some good reasoning.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:58 pm

There's a thin line between feedback and complaining.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:28 pm

And those would be...?
Go ahead kiddo. If you think you can go around and insult people, than you better have some good reasoning.

So you admit in being a part of the "Me-me-Gimmie-gimmie-Mine-mine!" crowd then?...No need as theres plenty of examples already in this thread alone.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:39 pm

There's a thin line between feedback and complaining.

Precisely.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:31 pm

I agree with alot of what the OP is saying. Pretty much all Skyrim has goign for it is eyecandy. Dungeon aside from a few notable ones are almost the same generic set by tiles and monsters as you can get. A dragur dungeon is a dragur dungeon is a dragur dungeon after you found a few of them. Faction quests are almost to a default stupidly short and your advancement in them is also at a lolcopter pace most of the time. Some are quite litterally do three quests and some random guy then says "your now master of the guild!" so now your master of the guild. the civil war quest was THE SAME you just fight a different set of spawned enemies. The MQ was pretty bad. Al lthe followers are the same except if they are a warrior or a mage type many of them have backstory that constitutes little then "give gold/do mundane task" option to follow is open..

The dungeons are way more unique then they were in Oblivion. There are 400 something quests in Skyrim. Of course not all of them are going to be in massive depth. Again this is nothing NEW in any of the ES games. There are more variety of creatures and clothes then previous games. I'm cool with constructive criticism...but when the start rambling about things that simply are false or make no sense...ugh.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:07 pm

I don't dispute Bethesda's ability to build worlds. The realm of skyrim itself is amazing and all the dungeons are beautifully designed. It's just the content and substance that fills the world that's lacking and repetitive. The have the X and Y axis of the sandbox mastered, they just need to work on the Z axis and give their sandbox more depth and put more effort into the finer details. As I said the first 20 hours in I was amazed with the game. By 60 hours I just felt that I was doing the same thing over and over again with very little reward, finding the difficulty wildly imbalanced and none of my major actions in the world seem to have any impact on the world itself or garnish any reaction from the population; other then a new phrase while running through town... Yes there was still a lot of content for me to do, I just no longer felt any excitement, interest or point in doing it so I stopped playing.

Yes there are some mod's, patches and dlc that will likely improve upon this. My criticism is based on the games initial release and the fact that Bethesda hasn't seemed like they've really improved on any of the weaknesses prevalent in Oblivion and Fallout 3. They have improved on their strengths though.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:15 pm

So you admit in being a part of the "Me-me-Gimmie-gimmie-Mine-mine!" crowd then?...No need as theres plenty of examples already in this thread alone.

No actually I'm part of the people with reasonable complaints.
But it looks like fanbois can't distinguish between those two...

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:56 am

Probably because if they listened to every complaint on this forum we'd have less dungeons, more dungeons, less NPCs, more NPCs, less Voice acting, more voice acting, harder enemies, easier enemies, etc etc etc.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:45 pm

http://games.ign.com/articles/121/1215476p1.html

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:04 am

nope, they are probably insulted by any criticism in their games, and that's why their games are still buggier than others

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:18 pm

The only problems I have with Skyrim are the loot system, lack of unique items that actually look unique, lifeless animations with some characters during dialogue(Cicero for example), and the lack of true unique boss battles.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:16 pm

Bethesda listens to feedback. This is why M'aiq the Liar has so much to say.

One thing to keep in mind is they need to filter what they listen to. There are too many voices from too many directions to pay attention to them all. They also know they have a game lots of people like, and presumeably a game they like. That doesn't give them much incentive to change things they haven't already thought about even if the complainers are unified.

I find I have a lot to say on how I think games like this could be improved design-wise. I also find I'm still thinking about it and will probably keep my complaints/suggestions to specific topics or topics about modding. Listing them all in a big thread like this lacks ay focus and diminishes the chance anyone will want to read it.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:02 pm

Yes, they only know how to do the majority of the work an make a game that sells 10 million copies. But besides that they don't have a crew of thousand of modders who are able to make mini add on touches that when you combine 20 or so of your own personal preference does skryim actually end up right.

/sarcasm

How many people do you think exist that are modders who would probably work for very little making the game amazing? probably more than bethesda realise...I for one woudl love to improve the game.......( I want the CK now!

)