[louise tagg]

Although I believe you do have a good point, there are a lot of things that could go wrong.
However, as I stated in my previous post, religion is to big an issue not to include it.
Perhaps they could talk to people that are revered in Mormon society, to get their feedback and support?

It would be ok to include a religious group, but we don't have to call them Mormons, as I posted previously. Using a fictiona name will likely minimize legal exposure.

If the company won't even use real names for the weapons in the game (FNFAL, HK G3, etc, which are trademarks, and therefore create substantial legal exposure) why does anyone think they would name a religious denomination?

[Danielle Brown]

It would be ok to include a religious group, but we don't have to call them Mormons, as I posted previously. Using a fictiona name will likely minimize legal exposure.

If the company won't even use real names for the weapons in the game (FNFAL, HK G3, etc, which are trademarks, and therefore create substantial legal exposure) why does anyone think they would name a religious denomination?

Not to be a wise ass, but maybe because they aren't copyrighted?

Secondly, the FNFAL, HK G3 are all weapons that are designed after the divergence so they technically shouldn't exist in the fallout universe.

The church of the latterday saints or any religious group for that matter are founded before the Divergence and could just keep their original names.

I am not trying to offend you by what I am going to say, but in my opinion you are making it bigger than it is. Knowing Bethesda and Obsidian, they really arent going to try and demean it in any way. I am certain they will treat any religious group respectfully.

The problem is that there are always people that are going to be offended by it, and there is no way to stop that. As long as they keep the discussion open, and the content respectfull (as much as is possible in a world that is nuked into oblivion) there shouldn't be too much of a hassle.

Besides, it's a world wide release so the overall damage will be relatively small.

[Lavender Brown]

I thought people wanted to see a society rebuilt after the nuclear war.

Ask yourselves the question; after a nuclear holocaust, do we really want to unleash an even greater horror, IE The Osmonds, upon the world?

[Monika Krzyzak]

Alot of people overlook south park because of it's crudeness but it actually has some great social commentary in there. The mormon episode aswell, because of the way at the end the mormon kid says [censored] you for not tolerating other peoples beliefs and belittling the opinons of others because they make no sense to you.

Anyway I digress.

I wouldn't mind if any culture was put into any game aslong as it was tastefully done and really done with respect, ofcourse you can have some satire in there, but the underlying feeling would have to be that of respect.

[Emma]

I didn't see that episode but South Park can be controversial. Besides its Freedom Of Expression. What if they felt like having Homosixuals in the game? I Myself don't care.

Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 had homosixuals.

Whole lot of conjecture to say the Mormons would be offended. It should be easy to avoid any slur against them if they are put in the game, though. Could easily have them prospering where others falter, so they'd be in a positive light, etc.

I don't necessarily think they should be always shown only in positive light - this would be as bad as showing them only in negative light. They should be shown neutrally, so that everyone should be able to decide whether he agrees or disagrees with them, just like they were in Van Buren's New Canaan, with several Mormon factions with various stances.

Same applies for every religion. I wasn't thrilled by Fallout 3's exclusively positive portrayal of Christianity.

It would be ok to include a religious group, but we don't have to call them Mormons, as I posted previously. Using a fictiona name will likely minimize legal exposure.

As I said, many Mormons would probably actually feel offended if a post-apoc game was set in Utah and surrounding states, and didn't include any Mormons, as it would imply that their religion did not survive the apocalypse. While mainstream Christianity did, judging from FO3.

[Kyra]

Fallout 2 and Fallout 3 had homosixuals.



I don't necessarily think they should be always shown only in positive light - this would be as bad as showing them only in negative light. They should be shown neutrally, so that everyone should be able to decide whether he agrees or disagrees with them, just like they were in Van Buren's New Canaan, with several Mormon factions with various stances.

Same applies for every religion. I wasn't thrilled by Fallout 3's exclusively positive portrayal of Christianity.

Well you're right, every group should be a shade of grey, but was just pointing out there's many non-offensive ways they can be portrayed. Barring the ludicrous - for example, having the Mormons as some neo-Crusader group roaming around purging 'heretics' - I can't see any Mormon taking offense - if they are indeed put in the game. As for Fallout 3's portrayal on Christianity, my memory only recalls the Bible verse, I didn't see that as positive, had a very window dressing feel to it, generally, but I may have forgotten other references.

[Anna Kyselova]

As for Fallout 3's portrayal on Christianity, my memory only recalls the Bible verse, I didn't see that as positive, had a very window dressing feel to it, generally, but I may have forgotten other references.

That and Saint Monica's Church in Rivet City. Contrast it with all the religious figures in FO1 and 2, where the most positive one was a drunken priest from New Reno.

[Ebou Suso]

If its done tastefully, the only possibly offensive thing I can see happening is explicitly saying the Hanged man is a Mormon, because although awesome, he was also a rapist, murderer and robber, which could possibly rub someone the wrong way.

[Valerie Marie]

Well, "ex-Mormon" would be a better description for him than "Mormon". And such people happen in every community, regardless of religion they were brought up in or lack thereof.

[stephanie eastwood]

Still, I can already see people screaming because the only named rapist in the game used to be a Mormon. Although as you said, It could happen to any community. Make the hanged man an ex-Muslim, people will most likely scream, same with making him ex-any religion.

[Mistress trades Melissa]

If its done tastefully, the only possibly offensive thing I can see happening is explicitly saying the Hanged man is a Mormon, because although awesome, he was also a rapist, murderer and robber, which could possibly rub someone the wrong way.

Then his backstory could be slightly edited so he came from the "Fundamentalist latter day" sect, thus preventing any possible complaints from those who probably would of never bought the game in the first place. :lightbulb:

I seriously hate this "age of political correctness" where if god-forbid someone is offended at even the slightest thing, everyone acts like the world is about to burn.

[Peter P Canning]

JE mentioned Big Love on Twitter. How many sister-wives can I collect in Fallout:New Vegas? Definitely like their portrayal of the 'compound' JE. Also their obsession with artifacts from the prophet (i.e. the guitar)... And more Margie? Yes plz.

ps - i'm only on season 2 so no spoils please.

pps - how about using casino chips as currency in the vegas wastes? (totally my idea btw)

ppps - if you don't like the above idea, it's actually Ausir's. blame him.

[A Dardzz]

I wonder if, aside from the Mormons, it will give Josh the opportunity to reintroduce some of his old ideas, such as his division of the US into the 13 commonwealth (hence the flag, it was actually originally Leon Boyarsky's idea on FO1, but it wasn't fleshed out with an exact division of the US into the commonwealth until Josh's work on Van Buren).

BTW, wonder what the currency in New Vegas will be. Bottlecaps again? Gold? Casino chips?

Edit: DAMN YOU, KILLZIG!

[Danel]

The currency is the barrel cactus. The richest people are those with the greatest pain threshold. You can buy a suit of combat armor for six barrel cacti.

[Kelly Upshall]

I've got my own awesome idea that addresses currency...And it's going straight onto my storyboard (that's right, I have dreams too, and they're mine! ALL MINE!!).

[Jesus Lopez]

Still, I can already see people screaming because the only named rapist in the game used to be a Mormon. Although as you said, It could happen to any community. Make the hanged man an ex-Muslim, people will most likely scream, same with making him ex-any religion.

You make him an ex-made up religion, and sidestep any risk of anyone being offended. It's simple.

[Claudz]

You make him an ex-made up religion, and sidestep any risk of anyone being offended.

or connecting with the person and events on a meaningful level that relates to the world as you know it. It's cowardly and greatly diminishes the power of what the developer was trying to portray. The entertainment industry routinely pushes the envelope in much more dangerous ways and has for a long time.

[Lauren Graves]

or connecting with the person and events on a meaningful level that relates to the world as you know it. It's cowardly and greatly diminishes the power of what the developer was trying to portray. The entertainment industry routinely pushes the envelope in much more dangerous ways and has for a long time.

Yes, and sometimes they get away with it, and sometimes not. It's risk management.

[Genocidal Cry]

Yes, and sometimes they get away with it, and sometimes not. It's risk management.

Risk management does not mean "never take a risk". All of the Fallout games have been pretty 'risky'.

[Love iz not]

Risk management does not mean "never take a risk". All of the Fallout games have been pretty 'risky'.

How so? I don't recall any published Fallout game showing much risk. I would remind you, and everyone else again, that we aren't ponying up any investment here, and it's very easy to risk someone elses money. The way you should look at this is this: You are going to spend the next year of your life making a product, and you are going to go into debt to do so. Everything comes down to launching this product, and getting enough sales to pay you, pay your investors, and hopefully make enough money to start your next product. You want to make the best game possible, but everything you include that has the potential to piss your customers off will make it more difficult for you to reach your financial goals.

Yes, It would be NICE to include as many franchise references as possible, but if those references risk any kind of backlash, it needs to be cut. This isn't some college movie project, this is business, and this is real money we are talking about. You people are talking like developers...and are rightfully wanting to include features you think might be cool. But developers can't always get what they want, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is adverse impact on sales and potential legal exposure.

[Jessica Colville]

I just hope they do New Vegas right....if it gets a good score I'll buy it

[Daniel Brown]

I just hope they do New Vegas right....if it gets a good score I'll buy it

I'll likely preorder it.

[Mari martnez Martinez]

How so? I don't recall any published Fallout game showing much risk.

Fallout 1 and (especially) 2 allow you to do a lot of stuff that is pretty "risky"/uncommon in gaming.

[Tyrone Haywood]

Yes, It would be NICE to include as many franchise references as possible, but if those references risk any kind of backlash, it needs to be cut. This isn't some college movie project, this is business, and this is real money we are talking about. You people are talking like developers...and are rightfully wanting to include features you think might be cool. But developers can't always get what they want, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is adverse impact on sales and potential legal exposure.

What you say is basically correct, but describes only one side of the story. Much like with anything else, law of diminishing returns applies to risky topics in games. You can cut anything potentially offensive and end up with very politically correct game, which is so bland that not many people would even consider pirating it, much less buying. Or you go in the other direction, and add those controversial themes in the game. Sometimes, you can get away with it. Fallout 1 did, for example.

[Kari Depp]

How so? I don't recall any published Fallout game showing much risk. I would remind you, and everyone else again, that we aren't ponying up any investment here, and it's very easy to risk someone elses money. The way you should look at this is this: You are going to spend the next year of your life making a product, and you are going to go into debt to do so. Everything comes down to launching this product, and getting enough sales to pay you, pay your investors, and hopefully make enough money to start your next product. You want to make the best game possible, but everything you include that has the potential to piss your customers off will make it more difficult for you to reach your financial goals.

Gay marriage, asian stereotypes, you kill the president of the USA (you have to in order to win the game, and he's a Republican), child murder, drug addiction... Is 'possibly insulting a religious group' the only risk that can be?

Yes, It would be NICE to include as many franchise references as possible, but if those references risk any kind of backlash, it needs to be cut. This isn't some college movie project, this is business, and this is real money we are talking about. You people are talking like developers...and are rightfully wanting to include features you think might be cool. But developers can't always get what they want, for any number of reasons, not the least of which is adverse impact on sales and potential legal exposure.

Yet they still include them, just like movies, TV, comics, and books. But yes, Bethesda might think it's too much of a risk, let's move on.