I get the sense a lot of the people who had critical reviews for Skyrim have moved on and are not here. I can't quantify that, naturally, I have no reference other than reading the threads here. But it seems to me those defending the game have become more aggressive and less 'tolerant'. One of their opinions was that criticism was from trolls who would not stay- only drop a egg on the parade and then leave.

On the other hand, the critics may have nothing else to say. They're disapointed, the game won't and can't change now, so what else is there to do? To stay and converse about Skyrim when many no longer play Skyrim makes no sense. If the critics have left, or stopped being 'critical', that means those happy with Bethesda's changes will be in the majority.

If Bethesda went by its forum posts the results would be skewed. If Bethesda went by letters to them the results are skewed. I read here that criticism of skyrim on several commerical sites was running around 10 percent. That doesn't sound very high to me. Ten percent would be smaller than those disapointed by Oblvion who'd loved Morrowind.

I'll say again; I don't believe Bethesda gypped us. They put time and energy into this game. It has many many fine touches. There are improvements, and not just visual, either. I see the game as more action adventure than role playing, and as such, it's probably the best in the world.

I hope Bethesda brings back much of the missing qualities, but history tells me they may not- we are now seeing the structure of future games from that studio. We'll find out if Bethesda was right in knowing what the largest audience wanted or if they left too many people behind. Are sales really slowing- unnaturally so? After shipping ten million I'd expect a slow spell.

I'm still here, and still critical.

MAGIC IN SKYRIM IS GARBAGE. I WANT SPELL CREATION.

See!

Nope they are still here unfortunately and will continue to ignore the truth that Skyrim fixes the problems that the previous TES games had and is the best game in the series even with it's flaws which are few.

Oh no, they're still here.

Its just that the most of the threads get moved to the spoilers section, or locked when they become flamewars.

I've had some pretty civil disagreements in quite a few threads, and while I think Skyrim is far from perfect... I am generally satisfied with it.

I am also glad that 90% of the threads are now about the game, and not about egos.

Well sad thing is, the newbs, casuals, unreceptive, dabblers, and the people that don't care what they are given far outnumber the vets, and old guard, or people that just like more. My problem is there's plenty of games made specifically for the former, and only one for the latter. We shouldn't have to sacrifice the last of its kind, when there's umpteen linear games for the newbs, casuals, blah blah blah. Its just Bethesda selling out to the graphics hounds and the quick, easy, here today gone tomorrow gaming community. Its shameful and a real slap in the face for the people that got Beth to where it is now. The cutting and dumbing down has gone too far. Skyrim is one big compromise.

I may be crazy but I don't see that Skyrim has been dumbed down to cater to gaming newbs who want instant gratification.
Sure it's been streamlined, but that serves well for me and I loved TES since Daggerfall. I like how we can concentrate more on the world than worry so much about configuring stats and making custom classes. I can't speak much on the loss of spell creation, though, since I've never really been the mage type.

I've done my own fair share of criticising Skyrim but really writing thousands of words about what the game lacks isn't going to change what it lacks. I was hoping Skyrim would be the game that would move me on from Morrowind but I just moved onto Skyrim for half a month before I realized that it was even more limited than Oblivion where I could at least re-create my character from Morrowind in terms of both personality and playstyle fairly accurately where Skyrim did not allow for that.

Been playing a new character in Morrowind lately and I sometimes drop in on these forums, but I tend to stick to the community section these days.

roflmfao @ aggy's sig...

See Grog, plenty of critics left.

i would have to disagree with Erandur. Im kind of tired of peopel calling others vets or casuals, its like sorry not everyone is that old no offense to erandur. This is reminding me of pc master race type of conversations...im a hardcoe TES fan since morrowind back when i was in middle school. i've played 1,2,3,4,5 and in my opnion skyrim only comes second to morrowind. but i think many are having trouble getting the feeling they got in the older games. Its like the first few times you play its just a fresh new thing and now not so much in skyrim. I also dont feel skyrim sold to graphics hounds. the graphics are good but far from flawless. I think that there could have been mor ein the game but what was done in the game was done right. Its almost like they forget that we used to have to pick up all of our armor before and not be able to make it. now i know i was bummed about losing spell creation but the spell system does work and it takes a good bit of strategy. i think we should wait for the DLC's to pass final judgement. anyway the old whiners have not gone yet lol. thats okay though i need these people to remind me with success comes haters. Skyrim became too successful. And even though it is a bit dumbed down there were a lot of good things put into it. oh well what can we do at this point except for agree to disagree.

Trouble is, the list of folks that you account for there first, are the vast majority now, and represent a LOT of dollars in game sales. The old guard are relegated to 'niche market' status.

Yea, indeed OP. Can't tell what's worse lately - trolls or "really devoted fans"?

My Biggest beef. Not being able to make builds and characters that were more than viable in every other ES. Most every other that is, Arena was actually rather linear compared to Dagger or Morrow.

Streamlined does not take into account an almost complete gutting of the character build. why are people finding Skyrim hard to repeat? Because a game based upon finding all the caves and badguys gets boring.
Skyrim gutted racial distinctions, gutted interactions with NPCs. How can you immerse when the NPS' s primarily repeat a line or two that you cannot affect or interact with?

And the loss of the spells and spell making, acrobatics and the others. This is not just 'streamlined' this is steamrolled.

You know that old joke, don't put a liquid bodily waste on my leg and tell me it's raining? don't tell me Skyrim is just as good or even Better than other Elder Scrolls.

Which is why I give a slew of terms, not just casuals vs. vets. But at least you gave a civil opinion and didn't flame, for that I respect your opinion.

Im still here and Im incredibly critical.
So there is that.

There is only one really decent open world RPG series where you can kinda do what you want from the get go. It is being threatened because people apparently can't be bothered to make semi-intelligent(forget min-max spreadsheet) decisions regarding what they want to do with it. Call it what you want, but taking options away is never a good thing. In a Role Playing Game, being unable to set certain parameters regarding your very own character that you want to experience the world with is damning.

I still watch these forums, but I have pretty much stopped playing Skyrim at this point. After 200 hours, I've really seen all there is to see:

DUNGEONS!!!!

DRAGONS!!!!

PRETTY MOUNTAINS!!!

Those three are old for me now, and Skyrim is sorely lacking in the departments that would be keeping me going. Which is to say: discovery. What is there to discover when every last bit of loot is being pulled from the same generic levelled lists? When your rewards for almost every quest are loot pulled from the same generic levelled lists? When my reward for going anywhere or doing anything is always the same: loot pulled from the same generic levelled lists.

And all loot that I can just make for myself once I get a magic number and a lucky star. Why should I even bother now?

pfft...

Everyone knows any game that doesn't have a black background and white text is for teh casuals.

Lord, I remember when games went 2D... people on the BBS's and MUD's were out in the street burning effigy's of Golden Axe characters, or so they would have you believe.

One man's vet, is another's newcomer.

People really don't like change, entirely understandable too.

The series has evolved since the older titles, I would argue that a majority of all RPG's are moving in that direction, not a bad thing at all. Making a game easier to play and understand doesn't make it worse and focusing on the hardcoe would've only gotten Skyrim 2 million in Sales not 10 Million.

A Skyrim with less hand holding and more of the cut features and mechanics back would have still sold just as much, maybe even more since a lot of people didn't pay for Skyrim on principle. Most of the people Beth catered Sky for, didn't even pay attention to pre release info. They didn't know what they would be given, or what would be taken away.

So many people joined just to vent their 'Dissapointments' which is fine I guess, untill you hear the same thing for the 10000'th time, and its also the way that it is brought up that is important. Rant threads serve no purpose other than to create tension so these repeat offenders turn into Trolls, mind you it was the same before Oblivion and Morrowind were released so it isn't anything really new! Then there is the tall-poppy syndrome, the better something is the more people feel the need to put it down, repeatedly if needs be!

Skyrim IMO is the best in the TES series, and yes I have played them all going back to Arena, this is MY opinion, and I shouldn't have to be ridiculed, questioned, belittled, or called a Bethesda Fan-Boy for MY opinion, alas this forum isn't that mature yet. (not sure if it ever will be) 150 hours in and still having a blast, still finding undiscovered locations, quests and things to do even at level 43!

Umm...have you been, you know, reading the threads here?

The disgruntled (PC-using, and seemingly all British) users never went anywhere. They're still camped out here, like the Occupy Wall St. protesters. And they ain't going anywhere, with their "Elder Scrolls RIP" and "Todd Howard Ate My Balls" sigs.

The people who have moved on are the ones who like the game. They've moved on to play it. Or they're discussing specifics in the spoiler forum. The general forum is still largely a kvetchfest. And hey, that's fine--they have a right to their opinion. And I have a right to ignore their threads, which I try my best to do.

I wouldn't quite call it "evolved"...... more like "devolved"....... and whether it is bad or not is simply a matter of opinion. In my opinion, Morrowind was a MUCH better game than Skyrim.

People like that will always inhabit a forum for whatever game forever. I am on the assassin's creed forum and constantly people compare brotherhood and revelations. It will never end. I can understand though. They get a game series that they get into, it starts moving forward with every installation, and then after 5 years of waiting - BAM they simplified it and changed it drastically and so old fans will either accept or fight it. At least with games like TES you can just mod what you want out of it on the PC. Let them ask for spell crafting, more npc dialouge, and some of the old features back. If you think about it - they could be right. I think they should push these things wherever they can put feedback into bethsada's mind because they have good reasons to be holding onto good features like this. They should also accept Skyrim for what it is, mod it to their fancy, or stop playing.

A lot of the criticism was being voiced since things were mentioned cut, or certain design decisions were released even before the game launched. Pretty much since the announcement of no attributes and Todds Spreadsheet PR BS, criticism has been rapid.

This. Evolution doesn't consist of things getting cut and not being replaced, while adding in extra hand holding features. Auto Health Regen? Yuck. What a joke.