NCR are the Paragons of freedom :facepalm:

That is far from the Truth. The NCR don't care about the people of Primm, Goodsprings, or even the New Vegas strip. The only thing that the NCR cares about in the mojave is the Hoover Dam, not to mention that the leadership is corrupt. If you say that the NCR don't have the resources then why don't they even try to take back a town like Primm. Trust me those soldiers outside of Primm could take the town back although their will be casulties, they would take the town back.

House isn't a dictator far from it. He wants New Vegas to be like the old Las Vegas before the war. His methods may be extreme but they are much better then the alternative. The NCR will tax the mojave to death, Legion will continue to endorse Slavery and Yes Man is a ticking time bomb.

A thousand idiots with a combined IQ of 70 000 are still a thousand idiots.

Numbers doesn't mean greatness, the NCR is built on conquest, the only reason people like them over Caesar's Legion is because their conquest is apparently OK, since they're elected. Yup, if you're democratically elected (or y'know, close enough) then you're allowed to kill people for land. It's in the rulebook of life as taught by western society.

Valkebus:
Again I think it's a) unlikely they'd cede to the Courier and B) their aid would be next to useless. The NCR would never allow them near Kimball or the dam, the Fort's armies wouldn't let a raft of tribals across and the Omertas are probably less trusting of the Chairmen than anyone else (except maybe the White Gloves). They're tribes and before House intervened were embroiled in a sustained war with one another. Any distraction they offer there would be potentially more damaging than the intervention of a charismatic and resourceful individual.
As for the battle, their presence on the Strip would be more important from my PoV, not only are they tied there and thus willing to fight tooth and nail (where they may flee at the dam or at least be less effective) but they're also the one group I can trust the most, Omertas, even after intervention, I'd still have my eye on and the White Gloves are extremely insular. I'd be worried about the NCR there or even potential attacks from CL or the Fiends, it's far past the lines but I'd still want a goodly force there and the Chairmen fit the bill well.

Yeah the MKII's could stop NCR, easily, they're probably a little stronger than sentry bots with their ability to repair and (outside of the game) effective use of their three weapons would make a formidable opponent. The originals though? Not quite, they're substantially weaker than the upgraded ones and limited to the number on the Strip. Don't get me wrong, it'd hurt. But the NCR were willing to throw lives away for Helios One (then ditch it almost immediately and leave a skeleton force led by an incompetent nimrod they picked up) for almost nothing. The Strip? All that money? Access to House's tech? More people to rtax and a solid enough town too?
Oh yeah, I can see the NCR loving that, hell from a purely military standpoint, if I was them I'd be all over it like a rash, the benefits of having New Vegas are huge.

Meeting House would do nothing for me, I see the whole deal as a simple business arrangement, much as I like physical interaction because it gives me a chance to read someone, if the money and prospects are good and the job sits well with me I see no need to meet face to face.



Wrighty:
I used the anology in another thread. Imagine a man who builds a fort, he crafts it carefully and using it is saved from the vicious attacks that ensue. Once the attacks pass and the enemy has moved on he resides in his fort but uses only a little of it, for it drains his limited power resources to do so. He emerges once he hears of new men, men he thinks will try to take his fort. When he emerges there are three small groups vying for control of his fort, fighting and killing eachother for his goods.
Would the man be within his rights to demand they leave? Hell yeah. It's his, he saved it from destruction single handedly. He ensured it survived the long bleak gap between then and now. He alone did this, they're trespassing.
House gives them cushy jobs.

Ok first of all by defintion House is an dicatator/autocrat. He even calls himself one, I'm not saying that's good or bad per say but it's simply a fact.
@MDF
True but what my ulimate point is is this, House has only one persepctive, which without the courier would of meant the end of everything for him. The advantage the NCR holds is that it has a vast mulititude of educated, and many different perspectives. Besides it's pure numbers ensures that it would survive even losing the Mojave.
@the terror of death
The NCR is spreading democracy, you're arguments about the citizens of the Mojave are basically invalid concerning those people aren't citizens of the NCR yet, nor are they even in a non-warzone situation in which resources are limited and an army of totalitarian slavers are ready to kill them all. Honestly of course the NCR wants the Dam, why the hell wouldn't they? So House can chrage them for it? So Caeser can destroy it? So it can stop operating? And why are they taking the Dam? So they can give power to 700,000 people. Why don't they deserve the power? Why should the NCR just not provide the best thing it can for it's citizens?
@hugga
100,000 educated people > one smart guy

Not everybody in the NCR has a good education, assuming some even have one. Having different perspectives isn't always a good thing. You also don't seem to understand that just because there may be 100,000 eduacted folk, they aren't necessarily going to have the same education as House had. A 100,000 may know addition, and one man may know calculus, are saying that those 100,000 people are smarter than that one man?

FalloutBob, it sounds like your saying 'Democracy is the only way!'. If you listen to President Kimballs speech at Hoover Dam, he pretty much sums up NCRs majority opinion, ' The people back hom ask 'What is Nevada to us?' ' Also, when you ask Chief Hanlon about Lake Mead, he mentions how all the lakes back home in California went dry from the War, or the NCR used it all. Now this proves large and wide my point about NCR and it's Jingoist behavoir. Conquer for resources, tax the locals, and we get rich off of it. If you notice, alot of NCR's end slides indicate the transport of taxes and resources going back to Shady Sands and California. I think House winning is what the NCR needs, a good slap on the nose and hopefully a wake up call that has Columbia coming down from the Heavens and saying 'You need to focus on your borders, your invasion of Las Vegas has left your borders weak, vulnerable. It's not so bad to have an uncontrolled ally."

Also, I strongly disagree with your opinion of 'One man as leader is worse than democracy', seeing as America today isn't even a true democracy. My point is, these Presidents and Senators in NCR are the ones calling the shots, not the people. As I see it, democracy is a nice way of saying 'The illusion of power to the people, let the disguised Aristocracy make the calls.'. Look at House, he offers more freedoms, his main political ideal is 'As long as your goals wont ruin my plans, sure.'. Primm if you get it a sheriff? Left to it's own devices. NoVac? Left to it's own devices. Goodsprings? It even thrives under House, and House even sends Victor along to them as a thank you present.

At least the people have some say in what the NCR does. Not as much as they would like to think, but much more than House or CL. Sure they have rich corrupt politicians but its backbone is good hardworking citizens and soldiers, who believe in democracy.

It's backbone is people who work and fight.

Believe in democracy? Perhaps, there's no indication of this, even if they did that's not an inherently good thing.

Hard working?

Hahaha


haaaahahahaha


ooohh
Oh dear.
Sorry.


As for the soldiers, yay? People who's profession involves killing for money are inherently good? I think not. (Not a pacifist by the way, I was trained for three years as a cadet and have spent a lot of time with the military, the idea that they're good just because they're soldiers is foolish though)
Worse is the NCR army, they kill people and steal their land because they want resources, that's all they want and they want them purely because they've managed to exhaust the resources back home. They're like a great swarm of locusts, tearing through the world. People join them because it's join or die, some may join them because they have numbers, weaponry and money. They're still just there to take the resources home.

Not like locusts. More like ants which leave no trace behind. Destroying everything and transporting it back home to be consumed by their queens.

The NCR are just average people, who want a better life for themselves. House is just youre average power hungry dictator willing to do anything and to step on anyone to achieve his goal.

How can you possibly call Mr. House average? You obviously don't know his goal either, otherwise you would also know that he isn't power hungry. You say the NCR are average people, what about Oliver and Kimball? Oliver is a glory hound and Kimball is a warhawk.

I liked that ending slide, Mr. House is such a polite man

Independence:

"With New Vegas' independence formally declared, Goodsprings thrived. More travellers stopped by Goodsprings on their way to and from The Strip, and the locals grew prosperous from the traffic."

House:

"After Mr. House gained control of New Vegas, he sent a Securitron to Goodsprings as a token of appreciation for helping the Courier. Victor was a mixed blessing, however, as he continually monitored the town for Mr. House."

Can't argue the facts, so you play little word games with my choice of phrases...typical. Who is going to fix up a building just to have some thugs will come and take it from them? Unless they can afford to deploy heavily armed retainers like the Garretts and Van Graffs......nobody. And the reason there aren't thugs around Cerulean is because Major Kiernan's men next door probably shot a few and the rest got the hint to stay away. Until someone imposes order in Freeside, it won't change from what it is. The Kings don't have the numbers or firepower to do it themselves. With some discreet backing from House that could be changed.




The NCR has the only heavy industrial base West of the Mississippi (that we know of) capable of maintaining the Dam, not to mention operate railroads or build the tools to build the machines House is going to need to make his dream come true. He doesn't have to like them to work with them....and as owner of one of the pre-war US's biggest Defense Contractors House knows more about lobbying and influence peddling than the canniest Brahmin Baron or Agricorp owner ever will. If he made a deal with the NCR inside of five years he'd be controlling the NCR's Industrial policies and probably the OSI to boot. But he'd have to talk to others to do that....something he doesn't want to do.




Because they're there and come cheap. House is not supposed to be some COD devoted fan with chronic ADD who cannot see beyond ten minutes from now, he's supposed to be a visionary whose plan is going to take 2-3 generations to come to fruition. And scientists in the Mojave Wasteland? That's funny. The only trained scientists around are either in the NCR or FoTA...he can recruit from them, but he is going to need more. A lot more. Today's Freesiders may be only good for manual labor or security guards....thier children could be raised to become the engineers, scientists, and machinists that will send thier children to the stars. As far as chem dealers....once order is restored and Freesiders have something to look forward to, chem dealers won't be getting so much business. The smartest ones will find a place in the New Order doing something else....of the rest, the smarter ones will get out, the not-so-smart could be dealt with. Surgically.



Unless they attack the Strip, or merely pile them up in their HQ and swim around in them like Scrooge McDuck instead of using them they cannot help but use them to benefit House. Every time they shoot a Freeside Thug or drive out someone trying to muscle in on thier turf they are helping House by helping themselves. All he needs from the Kings is for order to be maintained and hostile factions to be kept out...both of which benefit the Kings a lot more than bothering House does.




The big House argument for exterminating the Kings is that he had to otherwise the NCR would buy thier way into controlling Freeside by bribing the Freesiders with food and increased access to water. Either keeping the NCR out of Freeside is important or it isn't. If it isn't, then House had no justification for wiping out the Kings to punish them for taking the NCR's offer of food relief. If it is, then House was short-sighted as well as cruel when he left the Freesiders to rot and put them into a situation where they were willing to take assistance from the NCR..who they hated...because it was NCR help or nothing. And then exterminating them for taking it.

BTW...the monorail doesn't go to Freeside if you hadn't noticed. And by "shut out" I mean denied any political influence in Freeside...because House had hired the Kings to be his proxies before the NCR even got started....not abrogating the Treaty by trying to keep the NCR out of the Strip.

Can't argue the facts, so you play little word games with my choice of phrases...typical. Who is going to fix up a building just to have some thugs will come and take it from them? Unless they can afford to deploy heavily armed retainers like the Garretts and Van Graffs......nobody. And the reason there aren't thugs around Cerulean is because Major Kiernan's men next door probably shot a few and the rest got the hint to stay away. Until someone imposes order in Freeside, it won't change from what it is. The Kings don't have the numbers or firepower to do it themselves. With some discreet backing from House that could be changed.


You resort to insults... typical. What stops the Kings from fixing some of the buildings, they seem to have a few extra guys that could repair a little? The thugs don't attack the Kings. According to you it makes even more sense for people to go to the Cerulean area, because Kiernan keeps the thugs away and she doesn't have a problem with the rest since she's on a humanitarian mission.

The NCR has the only heavy industrial base West of the Mississippi (that we know of) capable of maintaining the Dam, not to mention operate railroads or build the tools to build the machines House is going to need to make his dream come true. He doesn't have to like them to work with them....and as owner of one of the pre-war US's biggest Defense Contractors House knows more about lobbying and influence peddling than the canniest Brahmin Baron or Agricorp owner ever will. If he made a deal with the NCR inside of five years he'd be controlling the NCR's Industrial policies and probably the OSI to boot. But he'd have to talk to others to do that....something he doesn't want to do.

Why would House need to have lobby when he obviously was the best at what he did? Why would House want to control the NCR's industrial policies or the OSI, he only works with the NCR when he has to. Otherwise he only needs the people from the NCR to come to Vegas and spend their money. What do you mean he doesn't talk to others? He set up the Three Families, hired scavengers to search for the Platinum Chip, and also formed a treaty with the NCR. Those are only the dealings we know about.

Because they're there and come cheap. House is not supposed to be some COD devoted fan with chronic ADD who cannot see beyond ten minutes from now, he's supposed to be a visionary whose plan is going to take 2-3 generations to come to fruition. And scientists in the Mojave Wasteland? That's funny. The only trained scientists around are either in the NCR or FoTA...he can recruit from them, but he is going to need more. A lot more. Today's Freesiders may be only good for manual labor or security guards....thier children could be raised to become the engineers, scientists, and machinists that will send thier children to the stars. As far as chem dealers....once order is restored and Freesiders have something to look forward to, chem dealers won't be getting so much business. The smartest ones will find a place in the New Order doing something else....of the rest, the smarter ones will get out, the not-so-smart could be dealt with. Surgically.

The people of Freeside are going to continue with their addictions until the dealers are taken care of, the dealers aren't going to simply lose their costumers.Most children that grow up in this enviroment are going to follow in their parent's footsteps. The Followers are overburdened after the NCR is expelled from Hoover Dam, I doubt they could spare as many you think House needs.

Unless they attack the Strip, or merely pile them up in their HQ and swim around in them like Scrooge McDuck instead of using them they cannot help but use them to benefit House. Every time they shoot a Freeside Thug or drive out someone trying to muscle in on thier turf they are helping House by helping themselves. All he needs from the Kings is for order to be maintained and hostile factions to be kept out...both of which benefit the Kings a lot more than bothering House does.

I suppose, but Pacer's a rogue element.


The big House argument for exterminating the Kings is that he had to otherwise the NCR would buy thier way into controlling Freeside by bribing the Freesiders with food and increased access to water. Either keeping the NCR out of Freeside is important or it isn't. If it isn't, then House had no justification for wiping out the Kings to punish them for taking the NCR's offer of food relief. If it is, then House was short-sighted as well as cruel when he left the Freesiders to rot and put them into a situation where they were willing to take assistance from the NCR..who they hated...because it was NCR help or nothing. And then exterminating them for taking it.

If it isn't important to keep the NCR out of Freeside, then the Kings would be punished, they would be an example of what happens when you make poor choices when dealing with Mr. House. If it is important, then House all of a sudden becomes short-sighted? Are you saying he isn't short-sighted or he is?

BTW...the monorail doesn't go to Freeside if you hadn't noticed. And by "shut out" I mean denied any political influence in Freeside...because House had hired the Kings to be his proxies before the NCR even got started....not abrogating the Treaty by trying to keep the NCR out of the Strip.

Of course I know the monorail doesn't connect to Freeside, but if didn't you notice, it does connect to Vegas. In case you didn't notice some more, House is in Vegas. If the NCR can't use the monorail, then the only way in is through the main gate in Freeside. Therefore House can shut the NCR put by holding the main gate. That way there is only one entrance to Vegas out of the previous two. Did I make myself clear now?

Mr House is a purely logical man. He may as well be machine. His angle? Why is he doing this? Well, I feel I'm the first to say that's a complete mystery. He truly wants man to stay alive as a race. He wishes to civilize people bring the old world customs back, bring back old technology, fix the wheel, make it better, get it to roll smoother and faster. House is the world's mechanic. He says he will have the whole human race an another non-bombed out planet within... 200 years he said? Anyways, House IS kind of right about the BoS. You don't see them investing any time in medical technology. It seems all they research is weapons, such as the Gauss Rifle, ARCHIMEDES, The Pulse Gun, etc. Yeah, it's entirely possible that Veronica could change them, but there's also something that was cut. You were supposed to be able to keep House from destroying the Brotherhood. It may have been a Speech challenge. I'm disappointed that it was cut.

MtnDewFanatic, if you are going to space exploration and colonization, you can't rely on scavenging 200 years old material.

And you have a better head start when the whole NCR is under you control.

I don't think House intends to scavenge... I think he intends to create. He can certainly do it.

What's wrong with recycling? The old material could be recycled to become new again.

And the REPCONN rockets managed to fly while being 200 years old. And since House owns both the New Vegas Steel plant AND REPCONN, it isn't inconceivable to imagine he could easily rebuildit, and if House hires Chris, the scientist who helps the Ghouls at REPCONN, he could certiantly make leaps towards reigniting Space Exploration.

We don't know if the destination of the Brightfollower is in space, we only know they flew off and not landing in Mojave.

.....Touche', you win this post, but not without paying a price.

:mage:

I just read the first five pages of this thread. I thought I was on the first page when I posted...

Wrighty, what's up with your grammar?
And your arguments are completely... Damn, my vocabulary isn't as great as Colonel Martyr's. I'll just say flawed.

Well, in any case, House would be one of the best choices, along with the NCR. The NCR DOES mirror early America, Colonel, so remember that. I'm not saying NCR is better than House, though.

Hey we don't need grammar nazi's, not everyone is from english speaking nations :verymad:

Ah, I apologize, sometimes I forget that at two in the morning it's not uncommon for people of other countries to be on the internet. :facepalm:

The Kings are hard pressed to keep what little order there is in Freeside, they don't have the time or the resources to do anything else. That gives House all the leverage he needs to enlist the Kings. My point all along is that rather than ignore the Kings and kill them for unwittingly doing something he did not like, he could and should have recruited them himself. As House needed nothing from them that did not have a direct benefit for the Kings, it wouldn't have been hard to do.




House's goal is to get mankind back to the scientific and technological progress that they had in 2077, and then move forward. The money is only a means to an end, he wants it to hire trained scientists, engineers, and machinists as well as buy the machine tools, electronics, and other finished goods he needs to build the factories and research facilities that will bring his dream to life. The NCR just happens to have the only heavy industrial base and education system available to House for the forseeable future. Lobbying in Shady Sands would...like it did in Washington when there was a US...enable him to do two things that benefit him, frustrate attempts by rivals in the NCR to use the System to interfere with him, and to manipulate NCR industrial and scientific policies in ways that benefit his goal. But doing that will need him to talk to people as equals, something he is completely unwilling to do. The Families? Employees so far down the chain they don't even know House has a larger plan, much less what it is. The scavengers? Mercenaries paid to perform a task then forgotten once they succeeded. The Treaty? The only significant communications the NCR was ever allowed to have with him. Cutting a deal with the NCR has a lot of advantages when it comes to the Plan, but the deal killer for House is that as a NCR citizen, even as a major Power Player in Shady Sands, he won't be the Supreme Autocrat and will have to put up with people who are not subject to his will and can question or challenge him. His pride won't allow it so working with the NCR is not an option for him.

That, I think is the big problem I have with House fans....they either cannot see or refuse to admit that he is motivated mainly by Pride. In that respect, he is very much like Caesar, both are obsessed with thier place in history and making sure the future is cast in thier image. House's future is certainly more attractive than Caesar's....I'd rather have my grandaughter flying a starship and battling aliens over Alpha Centauri than paraded on a auction block on the Strip...but it's thier future and no one will have a say in how it will unfold while they are alive to prevent it.



Not everybody in Freeside is jetting...in game there is only one chem dealer that I've run across in Freeside (Dixon). As there are no organized drug gangs in Freeside, once the security situation is stabilized the problem can be attacked from both ends by finding work for Freesiders so they have better things to do than zone out on chems, and "encouraging" the chem dealers to find a more productive line of work or leave. An object lesson or two can be made, if necessary. If they try to form a gang to protect themselves and continue to sell they then become a threat to the Kings and I doubt the King would be inclined to put up with a rival gang on his turf.



Pacer hates the NCR and wants the Kings to drive them out of Freeside, which is ironically enough the one way that House can be convinced to spare them. His jetting is problematic but he would be a useful ally for House to use to influence the King. "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend".



I'm saying he is being short-sighted. If it is important to keep the NCR out of Freeside, then why does he ignore what goes on there? The Kings did not make a "poor choice" when dealing with House, House never made them an offer to begin with.....that's my point. Why not enlist them as proxy fighters to secure Freeside and keep the NCR from gaining a foothold there for him? Making them a unofficial fourth Family and covertly providing them with the means to rule Freeside unchallenged benefits House and the Kings....not to mention the Freesiders themselves.



Oh, I understood what you meant, what I don't get is how it is relevant to what we're talking about. As I've said more than once, by "shut out", I mean denied political influence in Freeside, what the NCR is trying to get with Maj. Kiernan's mission. It has nothing to do with denying the NCR physical access to the Strip. House wants NCR troops and civilians to be able to safely transit Freeside to reach the Strip. Using the Kings to maintain order in the streets of Freeside so Private Parts and Ma and Pa Kettle don't get rolled on thier way to the Strip where the Families wait to separate them from thier caps benefits House and the Kings by giving the NCR Government no excuse to march into Freeside and secure it themselves.

The Kings are hard pressed to keep what little order there is in Freeside, they don't have the time or the resources to do anything else. That gives House all the leverage he needs to enlist the Kings. My point all along is that rather than ignore the Kings and kill them for unwittingly doing something he did not like, he could and should have recruited them himself. As House needed nothing from them that did not have a direct benefit for the Kings, it wouldn't have been hard to do.

The Kings are so hard-pressed and busy that whenver I go in their HQ, they're standing around.


House's goal is to get mankind back to the scientific and technological progress that they had in 2077, and then move forward. The money is only a means to an end, he wants it to hire trained scientists, engineers, and machinists as well as buy the machine tools, electronics, and other finished goods he needs to build the factories and research facilities that will bring his dream to life. The NCR just happens to have the only heavy industrial base and education system available to House for the forseeable future. Lobbying in Shady Sands would enable him to do two things that benefit him, frustrate attempts by rivals in the NCR to use the System to interfere with him, and to manipulate NCR industrial and scientific policies in ways that benefit his goal. But doing that will need him to talk to people as equals, something he is completely unwilling to do. The Families? Employees so far down the chain they don't even know House has a larger plan, much less what it is. The scavengers? Mercenaries paid to perform a task then forgotten once they succeeded. The Treaty? The only significant communications the NCR was ever allowed to have with him. Cutting a deal with the NCR has a lot of advantages when it comes to the Plan, but the deal killer for House is that as a NCR citizen, even as a major Power Player in Shady Sands, he won't be the Supreme Autocrat and will have to put up with people who are not subject to his will and can question or challenge him. His pride won't allow it so working with the NCR is not an option for him.

I've never heard Mr. House ever say or imply that he's only getting money to hire people or machinery. Mr. House isn't ever portrayed as wanting to use what the NCR has. He had been preparing before the bombs fell. I'm very curious where you're getting these ideas that House has this big scheme involving lobbying and taking over the NCR industrial base and educational system, let alone become a "power player" in Shady Sands. It seems like you're making alot of assumptions from nowhere.

That, I think is the big problem I have with House fans....they either cannot see or refuse to admit that he is motivated mainly by Pride. In that respect, he is very much like Caesar, both are obsessed with thier place in history and making sure the future is cast in their image. House's future is certainly more attractive than Caesar's....I'd rather have my grandaughter flying a starship and battling aliens over Alpha Centauri than paraded on a auction block on the Strip...but its their future and no one will have a say in how it will unfold while they are alive to prevent it.

How is Mr. House motivated by pride? He seems like he wants to help humanity, or can you not see that? All the robots and computers, including the Pipboy, he made because he is prideful?

Not everybody in Freeside is jetting...in game there is only one chem dealer that I've run across in Freeside (Dixon). As there are no organized drug gangs in Freeside, once the security situation is stabilized the problem can be attacked from both ends by finding work for Freesiders so they have better things to do than zone out on chems, and "encouraging" the chem dealers to find a more productive line of work or leave. An object lesson or two can be made, if necessary. If they try to form a gang to protect themselves and continue to sell they then become a threat to the Kings and I doubt the King would be inclined to put up with a rival gang on his turf.

You're becoming a bit contradictive. You're trying to say that there's one chem dealer and no gangs, but you've previously called it a warzone and in this paragraph you change from one chem dealer to multiple. You're becoming confusing.

Pacer hates the NCR and wants the Kings to drive them out of Freeside, which is the one way that House can be convinced to spare them. His jetting is problematic but he would be a useful ally for House to use to influence the King. "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend".

Mr. House and Pacer unite? The only person Pacer listens to is the King.

I'm saying he is being short-sighted. If it is important to keep the NCR out of Freeside, then why does he ignore what goes on there? The Kings did not make a "poor choice" when dealing with House, House never made them an offer to begin with.....that's my point. Why not enlist them as proxy fighters to secure Freeside and keep the NCR from gaining a foothold there for him? Making them a unofficial fourth Family and covertly providing them with the means to rule Freeside unchallenged benefits House and the Kings....not to mention the Freesiders themselves.

He doesn't bother securing Freeside, because He knows when the NCR is defeated, they'll withdraw from the region. It would have been a waste of time and resources. That doesn't seem like short-sightedness.

Oh, I understood what you meant, what I don't get is how it is relevant to what we're talking about. As I've said more than once, by "shut out", I mean denied political influence in Freeside, what the NCR is trying to get with Maj. Kiernan's mission. It has nothing to do with denying the NCR physical access to the Strip. House wants NCR troops and civilians to be able to safely transit Freeside to reach the Strip. Using the Kings to maintain order in the streets of Freeside so Private Parts and Ma and Pa Kettle don't get rolled on their way to the Strip where the Families wait to separate them from thier caps benefits House and the Kings by giving the NCR Government no excuse to march into Freeside and secure it themselves.

I haven't heard of complaints in the game of people being "rolled on" on their journey through Freeside. This also goes back to the NCR withdrawing after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam. They're not going to be marching into Freeside anytime too soon.
[/quote]


“Examine what is said, not who speaks” I can quote Arabian proverbs too.