Uh. Well.... okay, but he's still planning "off with his head" you know.... whether he's doing it or the Thalmor are.... And the Thalmor are right handy while he's pontificating over the empire "putting Ulfric down".... Elenwen's there as the cart meanders into Helgen....

Do you know what the Thalmor would probally do with him?

It's not elitist. This game has inherited tons of it's perculiarities and definitions from the past. I mean, it's the Fifth TES game, and 7 or 8th is you consider others? There's much to get acquainted with, unfortunately. Just like if you jumped into the middle of a tv series halfway through. I don't think it's fair to compare the Empire to earth empires. It has completely different origins and reasons for starting.

I've played every one of the previous games (and xpacs). I don't see how you need to have done that to enjoy this game without reference to the rest. It IS elitist; you're saying people who've never been involved in the previous games should either immerse themselves in stuff they really have no interest in, or quit playing.

This game really doesn't require anyone to do anything other than figure out how to create a toon, move said toon, fight with said toon, and do whatever s/he wishes in order to have fun. I'm not sure why y'all insist on making some arcane religion out of a goddess-damned game to begin with.

[And if that's snarky, I'm sorry. Seems as if it's time to go elsewhere for a while.]

I didn't play as far back as you, so I don't think one should have to play all of them either. Just some acquaintence with the setting. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or elitist about it. I'm just suggesting a basic "get to know the elements" sort of thing.

Think of it this way.. We're not complete strangers or aliens in this world. Even if you were just a peasant, it's possible you might know some general history of the planet.

Besides all of this, even if you side with the Stormcloaks, Galmar and Ulfric are both former imperial soldiers. Rikke served with them. The general idea of the empire can't be that malevolent if even these characters believed in it once. A lot of what they're fighting about is what the empire would have fought about in the past (not all of the issues, but many). The only difference with them is they've decided to do it on their own now. While Rikke believes the empire is an idea worth preserving. Otherwise, she believes the same things they do.

Korr.... many millions of people who play this game will not give two hoots in a handbasket about any of that. The people you're seeing post herein about stuff like this are a vanishingly small percentage of the people who play this game. MOST of the people who play this game have no background in TES. Some of them will eventually get that background - but not many.

This game is set up so that you don't HAVE to know anything about anything to have fun. That's how games are written and developed today - for good reason. Most people don't have the time or energy to backtrack through hundreds or thousands of years of games/game world history just to figure out what they're supposed to do in THIS game.

And in fact, if you HAVE that background as I do, there's STILL NOTHING in this game that requires you know it to play and enjoy the game. Is my knowledge redundant? Overall - yes. Because not one dribble of it makes any difference in this game. This game (as were the others previous) is standalone - sandboxed. That's how they've always been (though the xpacs have built on the main game at that point in time of course).

I do understand your point. But it's not really a viable point for most of the people who buy this game. They don't have to know or care, and likely the major proportion of the game's players are perfectly happy with that. So there's no reason to insist on people delving into game history they don't need.... especially since they don't get what you're on about to begin with.

And, most of the time, you're preaching to the choir in this forum. Or you're talking to people who either don't care because they really are "mind's made up don't confuse me with facts" folks, or people who simply post stuff to see what a rise they can get.

I know they won't. And I don't expect it to change. I don't have to like it though, if we're going to get in a debate on what the origins of the empire are. His definition is arbritary and has little to do with the games.

It's not like I'm suggesting anything bad anyways. I started Morrowind on a blank slate too, and I did my own thing without a care in the world.. but I did start looking more into things, and it only made it better. Not worse.

You're likely unusual. I would bet less than 1% of people who pick up this game or Oblivion will ever look deeper. No, you're not suggesting anything bad - but one person's arbitrary is another person's comfort zone....

Truthfully, as long as I've been playing these games, I know very little about the lore. That's not as important to me as immersing myself in a world in which I can play however I want to play.

And.... I guess my bottom line REALLY is - everyone should have fun with this game his/her own way, without folks poking at him/her to swap sides, change attitudes, dig deeper.... Games are supposed to help us leave reality behind for a while, whether it's a board game, poker, tetris, solitaire, or a CRPG. Yes, seems as if people come here to dig up arguments about why this why that why not the other - but we don't have to go there....

Simple reason I like the empire...Col. Tigh and Commander Ivanova, what else needs to be said.

they look better without heads

Well I have Imperial in my blood sooooo......yeah.

I support the Empire over the Stormcloaks simply because I see no way at all that the Stormcloaks by themselves could beat the Thalmor. Even if they allied with with the redguards I just don't see them doing any better than the Empire originally did 30 years ago. Tullius is definitely a braying [censored] but the empire does have worth it individuals too, such as Rikke.

Well the guy is here discussing the game story, and trying to support his point. Have to agree with Korr on this one, though not necessarily about the empire being benevolent. I would rather say that it had side benefits as all large polities do. It was still formed by crushing whoever stood in its way or threatening to crush them.

But as you point out, as well, Korr- the Nords share those same values and principles because they in fact helped to put them into place. They just no longer want to be ruled from Cyrodiil. Should the fact that they were once part of the empire mean they always have to be, no matter what? I am hoping that eventually, the same sort of benefits the empire brought can be achieved through free alliances. The balance of power has already shifted. Cyrodiil is no longer the center, not even geographically. I would not like to see them fall to the Dominion, but hopefully losing Skyrim will shock them to their senses rather than the 30 year slouch they've been on, and we might actually get somewhere opposing the Thalmor.

Every opinion poll I've seen has been in favour of the Imperials. I get the feeling if Ulfric ever did get his way that it would be the beginning of another empire and a far worse one than the Imperial empire.

I'm not so sure that the former provinces would be so keen about their 'alliances' once the immediate threat of the Thalmor is taken care of. Another Empire will rise up soon afterwards once people realize they can conquer their neighbors without the legion coming down on them. The Imperials aren't the only ones capable of conquering Tamriel, and all of these nations will realize that with the Empire gone.

Yes General Tullius tried to execute me. But Ulfric pulled a similar stunt in Markarth on a larger scale. He also started a war that progressed not one but two completely unrelated plots to destroy the world.

Also, Tullius hates the Thalmor. He's just very good at concealing it.

Well if they have the Dragonborn it's really no contest. I mean the Dragonborn (you) is enough to tip the civil war in favor of the Stormcloaks, and if you can massacre Northwatch keep during "Missing In Action" undoubtedly you could take on an army of Thalmor.Totally wishful thinking but it would be awesome having DLC where you just went toe to toe with like...100+ Thalmor during a huge battle. Storm call+shield charge and just tear through the ranks.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Defeating the Dominion will take a long while. With the DB quest line ending as it does, Cyrodiil may be plunged into civil war anyway. The future does look bleak, but that's true no matter which side of the war you choose.

lol, here's a good reason for joining the empire.

i stumbled upon a dragon attacking stormcloaks.. then i tried to help. then i absorb the soul, while some stormcloak is saying "Keep walking."

"... Uh, wait a second."

"Alright, if it's fight you want, you'll get it!" And then she swings big sword at my face.


"..."


*sigh* This brand of militant behavior does them no good.


Someone tell me that the imperials act just as stupid. They don't seem to mind me going in their camps and such.

I'm sorry but the Empire is collaborating with the Thalmor and allows them to harrass, persecute, arrest, torture and execute innocent civilians because of their religious beliefs (where have I seen this before...). Any government that allows this to happen on its land needs to be taken down immediately. The empire cannot agree to this, even if it's "to fight another day".

like someone once quoted in the book, a game of thrones, "each one of our northern men are worth 10 of these southern b*******" i mean honestly, the legion are a rip off of the romans and they make me sad coz they remind me constantly of the terrible game that was "fallout:new vegas" so i hate them, besides, a 7 foot tall angry muscled man with an axe the size of a wood elf against a load of leather armoured, stupid shield and shortsword wielding so called "imperials" (nothing imperial about them) im pretty sure who will win, i mean, after half of the legionaries run away at the sound of his battle cry and the others die from the cold because they arent used to the climate...who do you honestly think will win in the end, oh yeah, and the stormcloaks leader is a tactical mastermind who can rip people limb from limb with his voice alone, THERE IS NO MOTHER FREAKING CONTEST! i rest my case. but personaly, i hate them both but if you cant beat em(while still officialy beating the game) just make them agree to a truce and stay completely un-biest.

I haven't done the MQ yet and haven't chosen a side in-game but I feel Ulfrich isn't someone I'd want to follow because of his racism and blind ambition and I take the long view that the Thalmor win if the Empire falls apart and I know that's not good. That's it right there and very simple. It's about the bigger picture. If the Empire falls apart, the Thalmor win. So the Dragonborn does all she can to keep the Empire together but not because the Imperial Legion are cuddly. Some of the wrongs done by the Empire can be righted in the future. Banning Talos worship is reversible...the death of Torygg is not.

At least Ulfric tries to get things done. All Tullius ever does is await the Altmeri Dominion's next move. Sure, he may be racist, but what about the Thalmor?

On my previous five characters I have always supported the Stormcloaks, but on my new character I have decided to side with the Imperials to see their point of the war. I still support the Stormcloaks.

Meh, I only choose the Legion because there is no sort of Argonian army >.>

stormcloaks could easily push the thalmor out of skyrim. Their presence in skyrim is nothing compared to cyrodil.. besides an argument could be made that thalmor and empire are both spread out.. I could see the stormcloaks pushing thalmor out its their homeland their snowy, mountian filled homeland... easily defended.. not only do they have the dragonborn but ulfric can use the voice to... thats much better then someone that pretends to not mind the thalmor.... that sounds manly... well i hate genocide.... but in person 'hey thalmor whats up my brothers?'