I am an enemy of the Imperials for one reason: If they win, they give Riften to Maven Blackbriar. If there's one NPC in this game I really hate and want to kill, it's her.

The Empire I supported pretty much died with the Septim dynasty.

And as Korr said, it is a shadow of what it once was after being taken over by outsiders. I don't particularly hold the Empire or the Stormcloaks in high regard, they're both shades of grey as they're depicted in Skyrim.

Traditionally though, I like the Empire because they allow diversity into their ranks and represent law and order. Maybe my true neutral thief wouldn't want to side with them, but whose to say my lawful good character wouldn't?

The Stormcloaks only accept "True Nords" into their ranks (yes, I know that's metaphorical and not literal) but I'll be damned if they turn my Khajiit into a Jarl. I've never really been a fan of Nordic traditions anyway, so I guess my favor of the Empire is the lesser of two evils, if I even choose to side with one at all.

I may sound ignorant because I in no way claim to be an expert of the elders scroll series, however base on what I've gathered it appeared to me that the empire themselves couldn't defeat the thalmor, which was the result of banning the freedom of worshiping talos under the White-Gold Concordat that the empire signed and agreed on. To my knowledge the stormcloaks are quite new of an organization so you honestly can't say that they themselves don't have the chance to defeat the Thalmor because they never was given the chance to prove themselves while the empire failed.

If the empire wasn't able to defeat the Thalmor the first time what makes you to believe that they can turn a 180 and successfully defeat them the second round? The empire is weak. The high king was weak and Ulfric is out to prove that the weak shouldn't be in charge.

Cold numbers Raizen, the lands of men can refill their ranks and rebuild at a faster rate than the Aldmeri Dominion. Treaties like the White Gold Concordat are meant to be broken, by one side or the other. I have the sneaking suspicion that Emperor Titus Mede was trying to buy time, and Ulfric isn't helping matters with his 'look at me' attitude.

Neither side really 'won' the war as far as I'm concerned. Towards the end of the war the Thalmor were suffering losses in bother Cyrodil and Hammerfell. The Thalmor definitely got the better end of the peace treaty but I think it was far more of a Pyrrhic victory than the Thalmor let on.

I love them for the great conquering force that they used to be. They took an entire continent and brought it under one ruler, and they did a pretty damn good job for a while. I have hopes that they'll return to their former glory and someday conquer the rest of Nirn.

I support them so I can build my anti thalmor army and burn the AD to the ground

And if the Stormcloaks win, the Silver-Bloods are in charge of Markarth. Maven has many, many faults, but at least using a group of cannibals to assassinate anyone who opposes you isn't one of them.

They do if you haven't joined the legion. You're considered a trespasser.

Black Marsh seceded from the empire. I suppose your character could consider that a mistake, but basically you're fighting to compel the Nords to do something the Argonians weren't willing to do.

You don't like Nordic traditions so the Nords shouldn't be allowed to practice them even in their own country?

Its hard not to be a Stormcloak rebel with the game's intro, no doubt about it. My first time I ran as a Nord Warrior with favor for the Empire. This time I play as an Imperial with loyalty to the Stormcloaks.

I have not come across this. I did come across Imperials doing the same though.


Yup. That woman is not a nice person at all.

Their are plenty of Nords who oppose tradition. If they want to change it, their choice... sorta.

some people think the law is right just because its the law.

as for me. i tried to join them, but tullius was being a d0uche so i left for windhelm. law or not, if you dont give respect, dont expect to get it

I dislike both of them, but the Legion has a thing called you know, Tolerance! While the Stormcloaks are bigots, and hate everyone that is not a Nord, for Talos sake Ulfric banned Argonians from entering the city!

Okay, let's get this on!

Now, I do support the Empire, but it is not religiously and culturally tolerant. An empire survives off conquest, and is ruled over by a cultural elite: the Imperials. Skyrim, Elsweyr (before it's secession), Morrowind, Hammerfell were all colonies. Ultimately it is no more fair than the Stormcloaks, but they are worse - their ranks made up by racist and judgmental sorts and ruled by a man who practically sacked the Reach to subjugate the native uprising.

Now that the Empire has lost the blessing of Akatosh and Titus Mede II is dead, the time is ripe for the new Dragonborn to forge a new Empire. I shall claim myself an avatar of Talos, and force Ulfric to bend his knee to me or have dissent claim his ranks as men see that he is nothing but one making a claim for the High King's throne. A new Empire will be born, by divine right!

In all fairness Raizen, Gen. Tullius admits he made a mistake, in military speak, but he admits it. Ulfric never comes clean to his fellow Stormcloaks about his sponsors in the shadows. Besides, in a gray affair like a civil war, no one is completely clean, not with one of the richest territories in Tamriel at stake. With that kind of a prize for the winner, compromise and deal making become the order ofthe day.

You know I even heard he bans Khajiit caravans from entering the city. What a bigot!

What "sponsors in the shadows"?

Ulfric doesn't know that the Thalmor are indirectly supporting him, so he can't come clean about them. They probably send a guy to Windhelm every couple of weeks with a cart full of supplies.



Unfortunately, all Nords are prejudiced against other races to a degree. However, this is most evident in Windhelm which is why so many people believe the Stormcloaks to be racist. Not all of them are racist, but so far all of the racist Nords I've seen have gravitated towards the Stormcloaks. I also find it unacceptable that Ulfric has done nothing with the racism in his own city. He'll help some Nords that are in trouble, but as soon as it's a group of Dunmer or Khajiit, he all of the suddenly doesn't have 'soldiers to spare'.

What part of "uncooperative," "hostile to direct contact," and "Stormcloak victory is not desirable" in the dossier leads you to imagine that fanciful scenario?

And yet Solitude is lily Nord. Roggvir's executioner complains about Ja-Ree and says that a lizard like him wouldn't have been allowed in the city when Torygg was alive. Ulfric also can't spare guard to find a killer who's killing Nord women. So, check your assumptions. They're a bit faulty.

People think the Stormcloaks are racist because they see one cutscene and extrapolate wildly on superficial premises, probably also running on their assumptions about white guys with Arnold Schwarzenegger accents all being secret racists.

The dossier on Ulfric states that 'indirect aid must be carefully managed'. Note the word 'indirect'. They also state a vested interest in the continuation of the civil war, which means making sure the Stormcloaks have enough supplies and weapons to fight, but not enough that they can win. What, do you think the Thalmor are dumb enough to waltz into Windhelm, shout 'free weapons!', and run off?

I never said Solitude was a bastion of harmony and peace where everyone of different races get along. I said that in Windhelm racism is more apparent. In Windhelm, people are much more open about their feelings towards other races, even the Dunmer. In solitude, that executioner you talked about doesn't go around harassing Argonians in the open. And I'm sure if he did, he'd get alot of sour looks from the other Nords, unlike Rolf.

And isn't the Executioner a redguard? I was saying that the more racist Nords appear to be attracted to Ulfric's cause, like Rolf and Bolund.

You're the one saying that they're supplying them with weapons, by whatever means. You don't think it would be a bit suspicious if carts of weapons showed up every week, with no known source, as you suggested?

So you imagine Nords in Solitude are tolerant and open minded? There's no way to prove it, of course, because there aren't many non-Nords there. No non-humans at all in Elisif's court. Kind of curious, isn't it? I mean, for a place so warm and tolerant, and only a few hours' walk from Windhelm.

He's working for the imperials. I thought we were talking about how tolerant the imperials are compared to the Stormcloaks.

Celan, I still don't believe anything I read in TES games. Including the "dossiers" in the Embassy. I'm pretty sure that the Thalmor would consider their base might be breached - in which case it's only sensible to plant disinformation.

And that doesn't mean I'm "siding" with either side. I'm not. I'll never do the civil war crap questlines again, any more than I'll do the MQ again. Once was QUITE enough.

The Thalmor could supply the Stormcloaks in a number of ways without drawing attention to themselves. For all we know, they just leave weapons lying around in the path of Stormcloak patrols, or find out who is currently openly supplying them and add a few extra supplies without them knowing. And if they don't have enough men to find out who is murdering all those people, then they wouldn't have enough to find out who is giving them so many free weapons.
I never said that Solitude was the undisputed paragon of racial harmony. And I'm not surprised Elisif has no non-humans in her court, Being a Nord and the High Queen, one could assume she is wary of outsiders.

And it is fairly obvious that Windhelm has alot more racial tension than other cities. You can't dispute that.
He does not work for the Imperials. He works for the captain of the gaurd, who works for the Jarl, who is loyal to the Imperials.

And I am not saying that the Empire is more tolerant than the Stormcloaks. I am saying the more racist of Skyrim's Nords appear to be attracted to Ulfric's cause.
I doubt that the Thalmor would even consider the possiblity of someone breaking into their Embassy. Their pride is blinding them.

Oh, I think the Thalmor are quite clever. Arrogant, overweening pride, surely - but they're certainly not stupid.