Continuous blind love also gets tedious after a bit.

I decided to jump into the Thieves Guild this weekend. I have to say that over all, it was a good faction, but could have been improved in a few ways.

1. Stop forcing the MQ of the TG to be active, this way side and radiant jobs can be done. There are places along the main progression that I can diverge to side quests, but it is not made clear to me at the time, nor is it clear unless I keep trying to ask the quest givers.
2. To that end, introduce or use Faction Rep so that a certain number of side jobs have to be done before talking to the next main quest NPC, at least in the early stages
3. Flesh out the side and radiant jobs
4. Branch the dialog some so that a choice can be made about the leadership and who stays and who goes.

Of course the last one will require the most re-write. However, the first 3 points could be introduced in the game as it is now.

I enjoyed the Thieves' Guild quite a bit. This is not my first RPG.

And I'm absolutely floored that anyone would take the time to write up rationalization for why other people shouldn't like something. I'm even more floored that someone would take the time to read it, and then present it as some kind of objective "last word" on the matter.

Agreed! (And do this for every guild! I was hoping for a mod, but sadly that seems to be pretty hard.)

Throw in the skill requirements from Morrowind I mentioned earlier and guilds in Skyrim would actually be pretty good.

With the exception of the plot holes, especially gets on my nerves everytime. So f*ckin stupid... She and Maven are the reason I don't like that there is no way to wipe out the TG.

@Nerevarine

Well the guy was pretty biased and I don't agree with him wholeheartedly (hope that's really a word ^^), but some of his points were observed by me as well and I tend not to get worked up over plotholes while playing.

Count me among those who think the TG is among the best in the game. The story's not perfect but it's solid. The characters are well written, considering this is video game, not an epic 19th century Russian novel.

As for the radiant quests, I get the feeling that the game designers wanted you to do them before the main questline of the guild so that you did feel like you earned your way into being trusted with restoring the guild. However, one of the overarching concepts of Skyrim is that you can do what you want, when you want. So if one decides to charge into the main quest without doing any of the radiant quests, they can do so. But don't blame the game if it feels hollow. Go out and do the grunt work first.

By doing the radiant quests, the idea is that you build up your thieving skills. You can build up your pickpocket to 90+ in a very short time if you bother to make the quests interesting. If you just go to the place, do the job, go back to the guild and rinse and repeat, then yes, it'll get old quick. But if you take the time to actually act like a thief when you're in a given town, it suddenly becomes much more fun. My current character has almost reached the max carry weight in jewelry and necklaces from pickpocketing things from almost every person in every town. She's even stolen stuff off the Jarls.

Remember, there is supposed to be a level of roleplaying involved in the game. The designers put out a game that took an incredible amount of imagination to create. But they can't imagine your character. That's up to you.

I'm not a really devoted fan of this game. It's buggy as hell which means that major parts are broken. But the TG isn't one of those things.

Yeah, while you're at it, be floored that people write game revie--- oh, kind of like what that article was.

The opinion in that article pointed out facts that show the storyline is a mess. It collapses with minimal inspection. Im not talking about minor nit picks.

Love it. Excellent read.

I'm suprised a moderator hasn't moved this thread. No spoelers in General!

This is why people have a problem with your posts. If you dislike something then it's your opinion, if other people like that thing then it's "blind love".

I enjoyed the thieves guild. I didn't pick up on half the issues mentioned in the first page of that article (I didn't have the inclination to read pages and pages) because things like 'how would that poison have reached that barrel' don't bother me. Likewise, issues where something doesn't make sense from a real life standpoint ("why would she have waited until right now?") rarely bother me - just like all those RPG clichés that really make no sense if you think about them. That's the thing, some people aren't trying not to think about them, we just don't. I'm an intelligent man, it's not that I'm not clever enough to have my immersion broken, it's just that I never give them thought.

So with that said, it's insulting that you refer to my, and other people's, enjoyment of these things as "blind love". Perhaps all those flaws the author listed stare you in the face when you play - they must do if it was a major reason why you stopped playing (in my world that would be absurd) but to many of us they're just invisible; we don't defend it because we know it was awful too but have an overwhelming urge to defend the game we love, we defend it because we had a completely different experience to you.

This is why people dislike some of the "haters", not because you give criticism but because you're prone to patronise.

"Blind love" was simply used because it is the anti-thesis of "continuously pissing," which of course "I am doing."

And um... you realize every time you say "we just don't like to think about them," you're turning what's called "a blind eye" which fits with "blind love."

A game review is where someone actually takes the pros and cons of a game and weighs them against each other in order to develop a recommendation (or not) of the game.

The article you linked was a 4-page nitpicking session where someone deconstructs one plotline of one guild in Skyrim. It's on a par with the video some kid made after the E3 trailer, complaining about such pressing issues as relative weights of wolves vs. Dragonborns.

Apparently you've never seen some of the more negative reviews of games, movies, music, books, etc.

Some things receive just downright bad reviews, not to mention there is a lot of logical points in said review of the Thieves' Guild.

I've seen bad game reviews before. And, just like good reviews, their value is usually dependent on the source. In this case, the source appears to be a very detail-centric person with far too much time on their hands.

And since we're talking about things receiving downright bad reviews, would you care to link to any professional review of Skyrim where it received a downright bad write-up?

I would, except for that you have little objectivity in this subject when you say such things as "person with far too much time on their hands," as that's nothing more than a child~ish jab at trying to hurt someone's character.

<3 лев толстой!

I love my theif character, he is currently on the to whiterun mission, but has two side jobs in solitude, as I don't fast travel I use the carriage and after I finish Whiterun I will head off to solitude and maybe stop and stay there for a bit. I have perks only in the Theif side, when he comes back from solitude he will be getting into alchemy as he bumps in Ingun Black-briar.

I Just do not know wether or not he will turn into an assassin, mainly due to his build but I don't know if I want that for him. Time will tell...

Just because someone criticizes the game doesn't mean they don't enjoy it, either. I feel it's the exact opposite, when the person complaining is offering up thoughtful suggestions or ideas on how the game could be improved. I thought the TG "review" linked previously in the thread was great! It really did make some excellent points.

Exactly.

While my "love" for the game died out due to many, many issues, these discussions are to point out what was right or wrong so thus Bethesda might take notice for this, or future games, so that my love of the game does not die out.

Dude, you really need to get some things about the nuances of the English language straight. The term blind love and turning a blind eye have different implications in the real world than they do in a video game or movie. The society that turns a blind eye to its nation's military adventurism is doing a bad thing. The guy who ignores a plothole in a fantasy RPG is simply playing the game.

You're misusing well known cliches by applying them where they don't belong.

And one more thing; if I enjoy watery coffee, then how is someone going to go about proving that I don't? The same applies to the OP. He enjoyed the TG. Good for him. But now you and some bloated fart in the wind blogger who wrote an article will now convince him that he didn't really enjoy it? Or that he shouldn't have enjoyed it?

JFC.

Imo the radiant quests of the Thieves Guild are repetitive. Extremely repetitive along with being unchallenging. I'd rather have individual quests in the Guild that involve actual thievery (you know breaking into a mansion and having to sneak past guards and stuff basically Thief style) and proceed to get more difficult and complex (you'd have to abide by specific rules if you want to get bonuses such as not killing guards or being seen) as you go on. Instead we get these boring radiant quests. >_>

P.S. I wish burglary and home invasion was as easy in real life as it is in Skyrim. Seriously, I'd be a millionare.

I really liked the Thieves Guild, but not for it's writing or plot, that's for sure.

For it's structure. It allowed you to exist in the guild, without forcing you into leadership if you really didn't want to. Basically, The Ragged Flagon represents the best of the Thieves Guild, and the Cistern represents the worst.

I'm glad you brought this up.

"Sneaking" in general is something that needs to be, as Christina Norman at Bioware would say "High-Risk, High-Reward", in that it sets you up for lopsided or extreme payoff, but it is also very hard to pull off.

For starters, if anyone not a "Friend" in town, or a guard, sees you sneaking, at the Very Least the Guard(s) need to interject with a warning, and Then follow you around to make sure you're not going to cause trouble. They won't arrest you until you actually break the law (Sneaking isn't a crime), but it makes playing a "Sneak" Character a bit more tactical, having to anolyze surroundings and note patrol routes. More importantly, it also gives a level of necessity to Nighttime action.

What's odd, is that this is actually already possible in-game. The Thalmor Khajiit assassin in Riften behaves exactly like an alerted guard should. But instead, stealth remains an immersion-facturing "I win" button.

There is zero logic in the bolded part. There's a difference between the "suspension of disbelief" and outright ignoring plot holes in a story. Suspension of disbelief is forgoing the reality that dragons don't exist because you are playing a game about dragons. A plot hole is an actual hole in the plot, which the Thieves' Guild has.

"And one more thing," I never said that the OP doesn't like it, nor am I proving he doesn't like it. And regarding "shouldn't enjoy it," chalk this up in the same category as to why reviewers say gamers shouldn't or should buy one game or another. Because it's the same thing.

When I played my thief character, it wasn't until: