because the game gives you the freedom. although, i don't think that some skill requirements would hurt anyone. perhaps they wanted new characters to be able to join up quickly.

Its an open game so each player gets to choose what they want to do. You can impose restrictions on yourself character if it makes sense to you. All of the guilds are optional so if say the Thieves Guild or Mages Guild is not appropriate for your character then you just wouldn't do that questline and save it for another character. But for those who want to mix and match, any and all combinations are possible.

The Skyrim guilds are very short, so there is not really any room for advancement and ranks. Because they each have a single story quest you are drawn to rush through it because of the urgency built into the story. So skill requirements probably wouldn't fit very well. E.g. the crisis at the College doesn't seem like something that's going to wait around while you dilly-dally around.

Lack of roleplaying on the part of the player

True, but why wouldn't you do that quest in Saarthal? You're supposed to attend that first lecture and it's just a noob lecture, after all. Complete that lecture and you're told to go to Saarthal for the next lecture, which one might reasonably assume would be another noob lecture. Once you go there, you find a plot device. Then you're asked to find books about that plot decide. Fair enough, whether you're recovering books or some other trinket that some fool has managed to lose in a dungeon somewhere is really all the same. A statue of Dibella or a few books, who cares? Item recovery is item recovery and a job is a job. Off I am. Find the books and the plot develops further and further, and you remain the initiate who goes on fetch quests.

I don't even recall being asked if I wanted to be arch-mage.

I avoided that quest because it is so against my characater and his abilities. My guy`s a pure warrior, no mage would take him on principle. In Morrowind it would`ve been impossible, as it should`ve been.

It`s plain dumb.

Whose fault is that? And if you're supposed to rush through the story then how does it make sense that the ultimate outcome is you being the faction leader? I could understand if you got some form of unique promotion, such as mage guild protector with a unique robe and a discount on mage guild services, or Thieves Guild Enforcer, but becoming faction leader just isn't something that happens over night and it's not something that should happen regardless of qualifications.

you should have to have a certain amount of magic ability to progress through the ranks of the mages guild, imo

The main problem with this tho as many have stated, is that the guild quest lines are far far to short to begin with anyway.

A lot of the philosophy behind this game is all about freedom. Whether it has actually erred on this side to the detriment of old school role playindg definitions is personal opinion. My opinion, you get to be Arch Mage by doing useful stuff, and that should maybe count more than "can't help you, sorry, your conjuration is only 35". You only have the time to play one character and want to become head of all the factions, you can. If you have the luxury of time for loads of characters, it's your choice whether to make different characters for different story lines, or still become head of all with one. You weren't forced. If being an Orc fighter who is Arch Mage upsets you in any way, don't do it, it's just an option for those who want it all in one play through.

The guilds are not very big though, being head of the guild is not like it was in Oblivion where you become head of a huge organisation with branches in each and every city. The Skyrim guilds are basically each a single club house with 8-10 members. For the services you perform on their behalf becoming leader of any of these small groups really doesn't seem like a big deal.

I always thought hard and fast skill requirements were a bit artificial. How do people really get promoted? If it was three options, sufficient skill, 'your skills aren't quite there but you could do a little unofficial favour for me', or brown nosing speechcraft check if you are nearly at the requirement, well that sounds good to me.

you could always like...ya'know....not join if your a warrior and like....save it for your mage?

nah thats too difficult.

Exactly.

If it bothers you that much, RP around it and make it happen, or don't do the questline.

One way to look at it is, that your character is the dragonborn, and therefore a leader. A leader doesn't necessarily have to know every spell. He needs to lead those below him.

If you ever follow real world news, how many times each year do you see some large corporation fire its CEO, and hire a new one - who more than likely - doesn't have any background in the company he/she will be CEO of.

That's because that person has college degrees (Probably at least a masters degree), and has done enough work in real life to know what it takes to lead people from the top, regardles of what the company does. During the times when he/she needs to make a decision about what direction the company should take, he/she gets advise from all the people below them - and then make the decision. The only way to fail there, is when people below you provide you with wrong or incorrect/inadequate data. This should be pointed out by the others (hopefully), and then - eventually - you fire the person that gave you the incorrect information and move forward.

I know this is a simplified version of what happens, but being in charge doesn't necessarily mean you have to know everything (of course, there are exceptions, because there are companies where you do need indepth knowledge).

It just means you have to lead.

This might sound hard of me, but sometimes it is better not to provide the option for a more realistic, immersive play. For me to be everything should be impossible, but I know that`s what a lot of people want. I had a friend who always wanted to be everything. He even thought he could join the army, navy and airforce and be a pilot, a soldier and a sailor.

It don`t work like that and I think it really spoils common sense in games to give `every thing to everyone`.

Why not play a separate character class on a rerun? You`re not going to sell the game off after the first go anyway.

I like it when I go to wizard as a warrior and he sniffs and goes,"No, no you are not Mage material at all- go away!" Otherwise they just look stupid.

I always use at least 1 magic school on my characters, my warriors usually use restoration. So why can't restoration be the only school he has mastered as the archmage.

I see your point with a no magic character. But you are dragonborn, with strong understanding of the voice which can be interpreted as magic.

I still remember in Oblivion how annoying it was when I went into the mages Guild as a pure warrior with no magic skills to buy potions and everytime a wizard would say, "Why don` you join the mages Guild, I sense you have the ability."

`No i don`t you dumb mage. If you were really magical you`d know that!`

You already knew what you were getting yourself into.

While I fully understand where you are coming from, loads of people with jobs/kids/spouses who think wasting time playing games is disrespecting their authoritah have played full price for a game, and want all the content with their limited time.
I can see why it bothers some, but for myself, I wasn't going to pickpocket some guy who had been nice to me, got the opportunity to kill a bunch of thugs who called themselves a Brotherhood, and having been told what the companions were, have left the 'speak to some guy in the companions' quest at the bottom of the list for 40 odd levels; why would I speak to them in the first place when warrior isn't my trade?

There`s always a reason to speak to someone not of your class, don`t mean you want to join their trade.

yet another person complaining about something they choose to do. seriously. if you got addicted to crack would you blame your dealer?

That entry is speak to them about joining, sorry. I should have been clearer.

end of the day there are people out there who wish to complete 100% of the content on a single character and this is for them, personally I would skip the mages / thief / db as a warrior, then again I never played a warrior in any elderscrolls game but yeah its a choice and down to you to keep the story true to your character type if you wish.

This is why I recon the thief class is the best in the game since the options of illusion magic for the mages guild and 1h/2h/archery make all 4 guilds viable and also makes for the most interesting gameplay.

RP'ing around it means making up some absurd nonsense of how the berserking non-mage who can barely cast spells ended up being the arch-mage. Not doing the quest-line would make sense if doing the quest-line wasn't essentially forced upon you merely by joining. For contrast, I joined the mages guild back in Morrowind mostly because I wanted to use their transportation service. I pay my membership fee, and they offer me services. No further strings attached than that and I'm not required or even expected to do all kinds of crazy stuff nor promoted from initiate to faction leader in one go.

Furthermore, you're suggesting that if you don't want the quest outcome then you shouldn't do the quest to begin with, but this only makes sense when your character has a good reason for not doing the quest. Otherwise it's merely meta-gaming. Meta-gaming doesn't function well with RP'ing.


Correct. I had my suspicions on what would happen but my character did not. What you're suggesting is meta-gaming, the art of not actually pretending to be your character and not making decisions from the perspective of your character, but instead playing a rational game of min-maxing your D2 or WoW toon. That is many things, but "role -playing" isn't one of those things.

Then again, I suspect you don't care about role-playing to begin with, which begs the question of why you're even posting a reply in this topic, except to imply that role-playing is for weenies and that real men play cookie cutter stat optimization games like WoW or D3 or what have you.


See above. Yet another person who doesn't understand why meta-gaming isn't a great solution to crappy guild design.

its up to you really

Bethesda CAN put blocks for such things, but really why bother in the end play however u feel like if u think ur orc barbarian is also very smart maybe he CAN be a leader of a college, if not then don't set foot in it

its up to you OP

The entire guild system in Skyrim is shallow and stupid. It does not make any sense and spoils role playing.

"Quick, there's some ancient relic destroying the city of Winterhold! We must do something!"
"There's no-one in the office at the moment who could take care of that situation."
"Huh? What do you mean? Don't you have an Orc warrior who has slain hundreds of dragons with his bare hands?"
"Yes, but his Restoration skill just isn't up to scratch. He's chopping wood to pay for training. Can we leave a message?"

*call centre jingle*