Yes because overtaking a defenseless city and slaughtering several innocents wasn't just as bad.

And Cyrodiil hasn't been rebuilding? They also got a five year head start, which was how long it took to rebuild Riften from ashes into what it is today.

That in itself makes little sense. Yes it's actually said in the game, but it doesn't add up. The Nords said that it was them that promised him free worship. The Empire was actually going to recognize Madanach's kingdom as legitimate.

Read the book on the markarth incident, the natives integrated the children, and ulfric murdered the children. And under the natives there was peace and prosperity for 2 years, not under ulfric.

And Nepos the Nose confirms it, most who didn't run for the hills were executed.

-exactly-

Thats bull. They offered to let the dunmer into the stormcloaks and were refused. When my character offered to join Galmar at first asked why a non-nord would want to join. When I told him not all residents of skyrim are nord he said "Fair enough, we just dont want mercenaries". It doesnt sound to me like he was discriminatory.

Oh please ... Ulfric is a Thalmor asset.

Imperial bias is biased.


More bias is bias. And from the mouth of a murderer of innoncents no doubt.

Except hes not. Using that idiotic logic, General Tullius is a Thalmor asset.

Umm ... have you read what the Thalmor said about him? I don't recall anything about Tullius.

The author shows more signs of being sympathetic to the Forsworn than just making Imperial propoganda. Yes it's biased but I'm not seeing anything disproving what he stated.

Of course, it must be all lies meant to demean Ulfric's name. In the very least it's far more than anything suggesting he didn't do those things. And Nepos had no reason to lie at that point.

Unless anyone else is bretons, since Ulfric was trying to get High Rock to join in his rebellion.



So an imperial aligned jarl who was actually there(Unlike the book writer) isn't a good enough source for you.

Sounds more like "a Jarl loyal the the Empire promised it".

Well, considering that the opening of the game is a giant banner saying, "The Imperials are dikes, and the Stormcloaks are a repressed people!" I'd say it's pretty biased towards Stormcloaks, so no. I cannot sway you. I have sided with the Stormcloaks every single time.

Hammerfell fought against a weakened dominion and won.

If stormcloaks win they will fight against a rejuvenated dominion and most likely lose because of the loses from the civil war.

I choose empire.

Have you read the dossier? It essentially says that the war is their asset, not Ulfric himself. As such, Tullius is as much an asset to the Thalmor as Ulfric is for not walking out of Skyrim and letting the province have its independence.

Do remember that it says that a Stormcloak victory is just as undesirable to them.


That he didn't even mention the deal that was struck between Ulfric and the Jarl's son (and the Empire for that matter) shows his clear bias against him. That he sits there and pretends that what Ulfric did wasn't sanctioned by the Empire the whole time shows his bias.


A weakened Dominion that had years to reinforce its position.

And no, the Dominion will not be able to win against Skyrim. Period. The terrain is far too disadvantageous and even if they managed to get some sort of foothold in Skyrim they'd be dealing with the most ferocious ground war they've ever had. Do remember what happened to them the last time a mostly Nordic army went up against them. (IE, their entire army was destroyed. The only ones that survived were lucky enough to be in the next province over) Add in the fact that ELVES are invading their homeland, and the Nord will absolutely destroy whatever forces the Dominion tries to land in Skyrim.

It was the Nords in Markarth, who were still loyal to the Empire, not Titus Mede or his underlings, that sanctioned Ulfric. Even the evidence points more towards that than the Empire as an entity doing it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the Thalmor were behind such promised terms, considering their goals and their involvement.

Remember the last invasion of Skyrim that was done from a naval landing? The Nords got stomped all the way to Pale Pass.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_176



Feel free to indicate what you're actually talking about.

Don't rely on UESP for proving a lore point. They get stuff wrong. It was the Nords that promised it, while the rest of the Empire was planning to recognize the Forsworn Kingdom.

The Akaviri invasion that brought the Tsaeci and Dragonguard to Skyrim.

I read that contact with Ulfric is not possible, and Ive seen with my own eyes that Tullius talks with Thalmor all the time. He invited them to monitor the civil war truce meeting, and was personally insulted when they got kicked out.

Feel free to prove it.

The Akaviri invasion that brought the Tsaeci and Dragonguard to Skyrim.

I figured it was this. And my response:

LOOLOLOLOLOL At thinking the Dominion's army is even remotely comparable to the Akaviri.

The "Empire" no longer exists. The remaining provinces are Cyrodiil, High Rock, and Skyrim. Skyrim would be better off tossing the Cyrodiils out and forging an alliance with Hammerfell.

Yes, nords tend to be racist. The problem is, all the races in TES are racist; the great meta-conflict of TES universe (Lorhan vs the Aedra) is reflected in the racial makeup of it's peoples. It's no surprise that the two purest races (Nords=Lorkhan, Altmer=Aedra) are also the most racist. In this universe, the races are inherently different, down to their souls. This isn't our world where the basis for racism is limited to tradition and fringe science.

Further, even if the Empire plans to turn the tables and kick the Dominion right in the ass, the fact is they will continue to allow them to ban Talos worship for some period of time, and allow them free access to Skyrim and the throat. How long will it take the Thalmor to deactivate the Throat's stone? Maybe the Empire will get it's act together fast enough to kick them out before they do, but seeing as the consequence is the end of the world, it's not a chance I'm willing to take.

And if your problem is with the leaders on a personal level, go and listen to the first conversations they have with their lieutenants as you walk in the door. The first thing you hear Tullius talk about is how backwards nords are, and how it's cool to lie to Balgruuf to get him to accept Imperial occupation, while Ulfric's first speech is about how much he wishes it wouldn't have to come to war and how he's fighting for his people.

Stormcloacks are the correct choice.

That's all the same person you know.

You're refering to Elenwen, who heads the thalmor embassy in skyrim, the ambassador in skyrim, and the retainer that is suppose to look after Ulfric after he was interrogated by the thalmor.

She was there in the beginning of the game trying to prevent Ulfric's execution.
She's at the truce meeting to monitor complacency to the WGC, and to piss off Ulfric on purpose; Ulfric will tell you this if you allow her to stay, minus the part he probably knows her personally.
She doesn't actually talk to Tullius at any other point in the game I don't think.

Seems it was Ulfric who demanded the right to worship Talos before he'd let the Empire back into the city and they relented. Considering he was a Thalmor puppet at the time and they easily found out about it, this makes a lot of sense. But he wasn't sanctioned by the Empire, they merely felt his actions were advantageous and thought they could get away with giving him what he demanded, not knowing he was being played by the Thalmor.

Edit: As for UESP, it's generally agreed on the Lore Forum that beyond in-game texts, their lore can be inaccurate because anyone can edit it. I still find it my favorite source, however, for in-game texts.

I don't think they'll be able to end the world any time soon. Either way that's not the purpose of their being in Skyrim right now. They have long term plans for the province, which they themselves say a swift Imperial victory would set back. They know that their token wizards won't be able to wipe out Talos worship (because as I recall, High King Torygg and Legate Rikke were both Talos worshipers yet never got busted for it), and I doubt they're there to end the world or deactivate Snow-Throat (unless the lack of a High King does just that). At the time, their purpose seems to be merely sowing dissent and ensuring that the civil war lasts as long as they feel its necessary to weaken the Empire and Skyrim.