This.

Why does it have to be either, or? The OP, and some of us in the thread, simply want the big, game breaking bugs fixed. I'm sure I will get the DLC, I like Skyrim too otherwise I wouldn't care about bugs. I don't think wanting Bethesda to fix broken stuff in their game means you don't support them. I've supported them since Morrowind with my money.

all my quest items are gone and not stuck, so meh. Even the instruments for the Bards College are finally gone. Only problem I have is going by sundered towers freezes my game.

Because life isn't fair. Half the world still doesn't have water safe to drink (or water). If you think it is a big issue, don't buy Dawnguard. Money speaks.

From a technical point of view, I work in QA. Testing something with hundreds of hours of playtime with thousands of possible variables for thousands of scenarios across 3 platforms in multiple languages and regional versions... You could employ 1000 QA people working 24x7 for 12 months, and still not fix all the bugs. The game would also be unprofitable.

Oh so your one of those guys who tests what I program...

Don't think I don't know how a software company works, I do. You likely would not catch every bug, but my friend, there are BIG BUGS IN THE GAME. What part of that don't you understand? Go here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Quest_Timing, the UESP wiki, read the very last line. That problem is still not fixed! Why?

Oh and BTW, Bethesda has had the benefit of 6 months of millions of beta testers, yet big bugs still exist. No excuse for that.

I don't know. I do know over 200 bugs, many very big, have been fixed since Skyrim shipped. 1.6 isn't the last Skyrim patch, too. There's at least 4 more planned, I heard along the graqevine.

Oblivion, by the way, got to version 1.2.

It might not be fair to be too harsh on Bethesda because they are still releasing bug fixes and if it wasn't for some posters in this thread, I probably wouldn't of even posted here. The truth is, yeah, if you haven't been effected by bugs yet, I imagine you do want the DLC before anything else, I just don't understand those who come into a thread like this and get bent out of shape by the people who DO have bugs and are frustrated by it. I say, just be grateful that you haven't had any or many problems, and move onto another thread. Stop trying to throw people who want bugs fixed into a big bin with the label, "You don't matter" on the outside.

I love seeing the argument of "I've never had bugs before, they must not exist/not matter, let me give you more of my money."

This kind of "acceptable" buggy product delivery is exactly what causes unwanted transitions in the client to business world. It conditions the public to accept bad business behaviors and low quality product QA.

No one should blindly accept such issues, but they've done a good job at conditioning their following to accept the path of apathy...they are wise.

Where did you hear that 4 more patches were coming?

You are probably speaking over the head of about 50% of the posters in this forum.

No doubt about it.

Oh I have definately had glitches, dragons going nuts, the resistance glitch way back, missions glitching, lockups around certain locations, quest items not unequipping, but i usually find work arounds, and they have all been fixed either by a patch, or me. If you are still having glitches, yeah, that sux, but you should probably be reporting them to the appropriate threads, where they get looked at, instead of just whining like a new born child.

I don't see him whining, I see him stating a sad, dangerous and true problem in the world. I worked at Bank of America for 21 years, always got good to above average employee reviews, and never did anything to warrant being laid off, but guess what happened. And why? Because Bank of America realized they could hire two east Indians, who were less experienced and didn't have my skill set, for less than they were paying me. Why do you think you have to speak to people who can barely speak English nowadays when you call for support from many companies? It's because we aren't demanding the same kind of service we used to get. We've allowed companies to save money at OUR expense and haven't punished them enough for that decision. It is not a practice that we, as consumers, should encourage because ultimately, you will be the one who suffers one way or another.

Source for the at least 4 more patches? Also, the PS3 still lacks the latest patch and the official word from Gstaff is there's no information about it as of now.

Also, 200 bugs might have been fixed, but there's still a veritable legion of bugs in the game. Many of these have been fixed on the PC with the unoffical patch, but why should that be necessary? Why should the consumer be responsible for fixing problems?

And if Bethesda isn't going to take the time to fix all the issues, why don't they just yank the unofficial patch and make it an official one? That way, players on all platforms get these bugs ironed out and there's more happiness all around.

If you want issues fixed, posting threads saying 50% of the forum are sheep won't help get them fixed or sway opinions of the masses.

Truthfully, Bethesda are still supporting and patching the product six months on, and from the same source who told me there are 4 more patches on the roadmap; they said there is support, QA and development planned through this year on Skyrim. I'd say 95% of games don't get that nowadays. Developers kick out a product, and maybe there's one patch. Bethesda are still paying multiple teams of people to work on Skyrim full time. There's two different arguments that presents: one, the game must be buggy to support teams of people working on it still. Correct. Two: it's kinda kick ass they didn't just abandon it.

Bethesda do not own the unofficial patch, so would be sued due to, well, the law.

Thanks for the suggestion, but you know what? I was doing just that when I first got the game, and issues reported near the game's release still haven't been fixed after this long. What does that tell us about their capacity to fix issues in a timely manner, when player made bug fixes have fixed far more than they have?

Depends. Technically, they own anything created via the Creation Kit, so if that's used in the unofficial patch, Bethesda does own it and can use it as they see fit. I'm not sure about ownership of mods made outside the CK, I've heard that they own those by some people and others saying they don't. Still, they could approach the people who have made the unofficial patch and ask for permission to use it for consoles. Even if they had to pay, they'd likely have to pay them a lot less than they have to pay their teams who haven't made nearly as much progress as the unofficial patch people.

No one said 50% of the posters are sheep, I said they wouldn't understand his post and I stand behind that. Some of the jargon he is using is business vernacular and I wouldn't necessarily expect an average 13 year old to get it.

As for your last comment, lets leave the legal e's to lawyers.

There's lots of drama here (though it's not as bad as Bioware's forums). I sympathize with many of the people experiencing bugs are writing.

But, like any business, Bethesda has to pay close attention to its priorities. While the bugs listed in the OP, and the one's listed since, are annoying and somewhat inconvenient, they aren't game breaking. And game breaking bugs must take priority.


Could they hire a much larger QA team to fix more of the bugs? You bet. The question is, at what cost? I don't mean that just from an accounting perspective. Money, read "budgets" are finite. What would they have to give up for the additional staffing? How would their other IP's suffer?

Bethesda isn't ignoring you guys. Their decisions can't be, and shouldn't be, based on what the small sample of their customer base that these forums represent is writing.

There is truth to the statement, though. I would say most of the Bethesda community is, at this point, quite well conditioned towards bad QA. Because... you know, it's Bethesda, their games are bigger and better than everyone else's, so why should I worry that this one guy is self-replicating, or that Giants can send you into orbit, or mammoths can spawn hundreds of feet in the air, or that the game was horribly broken on one of the platforms it released on. So Bethesda gets a free pass on buggy games because they know everyone will buy them anyway since their name is on the label.

On topic: I'm suspecting Dawnguard will be shipping in a similar state to previous Bethesda DLCs. So personally, I'm not fussed with getting it late. It will give Bethesda time to fix what they can want before I buy it.

What WizardFat@ss said.

And with regards to the unofficial patch idea (shipping it to all customers) - read the unofficial patch thread on this forum. There's hundreds of complaints in it saying it has broken people's games due to changes. The latest version doesn't even work with 1.6, lots of people no longer heard dialog for example. 1.6 is required for Dawnguard. The developer isn't around so people have been left with a completely broken game. I think Bethesda shipping that patch is not the answer.

PS: the giant thing isn't a glitch. Design choice.

Read the thread more carefully, we are discussing game breakers, though the OP might not of. The one I have personally ranted about is the Civil War quest line that I can't play because when I try, everything in the game breaks. Lost two weeks backing up far enough to get around that one. As for money, everything you say is true, but don't forget this, this game has made them hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not like Skyrim was the Waterworld of the gaming industry or anything.

Bro, I use that patch. They already released a beta unofficial patch that works fine with 1.6, days ago. Plus, if Bethesda took control of their mod (won't ever happen), they would, I assume, try to make sure further software development on Skyim wouldn't break it.

Seems you have much bigger issues that need fixing, friend.

Skyrim is form over function; pure art wanting to transcend it's own medium and it does - in moments - but then starts to unravel by the very thing that allows it to exist. Despite this I'm glad I got to experience it, the sheer beauty of it, would give anything to have it over.

But it is what it is, let it go.

Yeah, days ago - like 3 weeks after 1.6 fixed.

I will agree with one thing - the platform bugs on Playstation were terrible. The game never should have shipped to Playstation in that state. Bethesda knew it didn't work properly but went ahead anyway, which was wrong.