If I recall, it happens pretty quickly and would be easy enough to miss if there's a lot of noise or you're pointing in the wrong direction.
As to it flying, I guess the boomers are really good at what they do. And I fully agree about the planes at the airport! I don't get why they were there, they should have either been functioning or scrap metal by this point.

I don't count that as "announced"

They have basically said "we're working on a game" which is pretty obvious since they are a game development studio.



I'm not sure whether "the other poster" is me or not, but you didn't really address any of my points. Do you want gear grinds like WoW in Fallout? If not, how could Fallout learn from it?

What I mean is that they haven't announced which game they are making. We know they've been developing a game for the past two years, but we don't know which.

Oh wow..................

Have you EVER played the originals?

Fallout was NEVER suppossed to be a god like arcade simulator. You are supposed to be good at just a couple of things.

And yes, Obsidian gets it. They balanced out what was a horribly IMBALANCED game (Fallout 3). By balancing out FNV, they saved the franchise.

Fallout does NOT equal god character. Elder Scrolls..maybe...

You did it. Now I'm all excited.

Isn't Fable 3 like this that you have the first 50% of the game with high packed action and adventures and the other 50% trimming the hedges around your castle?

After playing-through and getting a good strong dose of New Vegas, I'm starting to see less re-play appeal. Once I've exhausted all of the locations and done just about everything there is to do, there isn't any left but monster respawns. Making the game continue past the main quest should be possible in the GECK, but then what? To make the game fun after the main quest, we'll need additional story modded-in by someone.

With Fallout 3 we had the Enclave spawns, which added new content all over the world and you were never sure where all of the Enclave spawns were until re-exploring alot of places. This was elegantly done by Bethesda, and created at least one additional iteration of replay-value through the world. With all of the DLCs added in, there was almost always somewhere else to go.

I just don't feel that way in New Vegas yet. I uncapped the game, got the explorer perk and did all of the locations I could find. Ended up at level 38 with all the best threads and pieces - and hit a wall of nothing left to do. The game doesn't Feel as though its designed to support replay in the quests or locations, I'm just sorta standing there looking at the map and saying, "You know, this really is played out - time for a new character."

I've always been a big advocate of unlimited play after the main quest, but am seeing less appeal to it with New Vegas at the moment. Trying other character types is where the replay value seems to be.

Well yeah but every studio is always working on a game, unless they are a crappy studio that's on the brink of bankruptcy.

I don't consider it announced unless we know what it is.

Hmm, well character-building is pretty much one of the major draws and how you'd explain why games like Fallout 3 are fundamentally different than plain shooters, IMO. Without the ability to advance... it's just a shooter.

But even if you think it's still an RPG when it has a cap... how is it still a game at all IF IT STINKIN' ENDS?!! And why SHOULD it end if there's still plenty of game to explore?

Oblivion had a level cap, like 52 or something, I never finished the game because I got bored of the copy/pasted dungeons and level scaled enemies made traveling incredibly bland for me.

What is the difference between exploring BEFORE the end and AFTER?!

Not sure, I bought it but haven't played it yet.

If that's the case, then maybe that game is finally on to something? Fable 2 was interesting, but fell well short of games like FO3 and TES3 and 4.

Eh I dunno. I never had a problem with dying in the fallout games. Sure, I never mastered the useless skills like science, repair, outdoorsman, gambling, etc.. but once you got guns up there, you were pretty much unkillable. I usually had over 100+ stimpaks on me around mid-game, and somewhere around 50,000-80,000 caps, depending on if this is fallout 1 or 2 we're talking here.

Find the alien blaster or plasma rifle? You're now unkillable except for gatling gun crits...

Also, shoot most everything in the eye and you critically strike all the time. Those games were a lot easier than F3 in my opinion. F3 is still easy, but it puts us into that Oooh 3D perspective we could only dream about having "someday" as children. We're just spoiled because we've already had games like this before now - but I'm not. I appreciate every single second of my RPG FPS Fallout 3 game. )

Besides... even in new vegas I put my Perception to 10. Sounds like a dummy move right? You need all the intelligence you can get etc etc right? Well nope. I can see enemies and locations from a mile away. I enter sneak mode and manual-snipe enemies. Mostly one-shot kills... feels pretty god characterish to me already :S guess its a different experience for everyone

Then its NOT AN RPG!?! It a simulator!

You're right about the traveling issue... one thing I loved about WoW was that you could stumble into areas that you were too low to be in. That was fun for a couple of reasons... 1, it increased the game's sense of danger, and 2, when you WERE high enough to go there it was great fun to go into that area and see what was there. Feels like a reward for leveling up your character... new areas to explore that you couldn't go into before.

Its the same in FNV. There are many areas that you cannot enter at a low level.

I haven't played it... I don't know. But isn't it possible that it does both?

Fable 3 is a simulator?
Of a bizarro-esque universe or something?

Well see, one is exploring, while the other is...er....exploring.... :rofl:

I can't really participate in this thread since the OP's views are so fundamentally different than mine. I've been a huge RPG fan since the early-'80s. I've played more video game RPGs than I can count, and I used to read every PnP RPG book I could get my hands on. I even used to GM more than a few different PnP RPGs (didn't get to do this too often since most of my friends weren't the RPG type). By my definition of the term "RPG" New Vegas is more of one than FO3 and Oblivion put together and then multiplied by 3. Like I said...that's about all I can contribute to this thread.

Yes FO3's Broken Steel story did 'end' but it did NOT end your character and ability to explore post ending.

Plus, the variable slides are whatever, not very exciting and does nothing for me.

Actually the definition of role-playing is in the word itself. Playing a role. It seems that the argument that the offended are trying to sell is that without an infinite level cap and no ending, the game isn't worth playing. It's like saying that because you won't live forever, it's not worth it to continue living.

The fact is, the game only ends when you want it to. If you don't choose to end the game, then you can continue on your merry way exploring every nook and cranny of the game world. As for the level cap, almost every RPG I've played has had a level cap, so what's the complaint there? That it isn't a real RPG if there is a cap to leveling? If that's the case then there have only been a handful of true RPGs.

This whole conversation is bordering on comical. UnDeCafIndeed has the right idea... I need to get some popcorn.

The only area I can think of like that is MAYBE the deathclaw area? I never tried that at the low levels, but I don't recall being unable to survive anywhere in FO:NV. There are places in WoW that if you step into them, you're history in seconds... NO CHANCE to survive. That's just one way to do it... I happen to enjoy that in WoW, but I liked FO3 too which didn't do it that way (although downtown DC could be tough at low levels).

What new is there to get, though? Most single player RPGs trust in either replayvalue, or the instant effect of the ending(s) - and in many cases the ending holds more power than letting the player continue. It's not a never before seen wonder or sacrilege, and there isn't really anything to get. It's a conscious design choice of storytelling.

I don't recall saying without those things the game isn't worth playing... I recall suggesting that the ending specifically, and the level cap, make the game less fun. I'm not even 100% opposed to SOME kind of level cap, but more along the lines of TES4... a cap at 20 is just lame.

Yes, traditionally you "role play" in an RPG, but as single player video games can't force you to "role play," when talking about games like FO and TES the RPG label to me has to do with customizing and improving your character and his/her abilities.