The level cap is at 30

Do you know how long it takes to make and do basic testing on a large-scale RPG? Let's look at Beth's release dates just for the Elder Scrolls series.

Arena (Elder Scrolls 1) - 1994
Daggerfall (Elder Scrolls 2) - 1996
Morrowind (Elder Scrolls 3) - 2002
Oblivion (Elder Scrolls 4) - 2006

There's also supposedly an Elder Scrolls MMO, and Elder Scrolls 5 in the works.

You're acting like they're long overdue for the next release, but guess what? They aren't. Calm down, stop shrieking, let them do their thing, and do your research before you enter into histrionics.

How did Fallout 3 reroll canon? I played the first two games before FO3 was released and I don't see how 3 changed canon anymore then fallout 2 changed 1's.

Okay, so you think Obsidian has it right then and Bethesda got it wrong. Okay. I disagree, obviously, but who could think two posters on a game board ever could agree?

Of course... an opinion other than your own is obviously "shrieking." Amazing this thread went this many pages before someone like you showed up. lol

IIRC the only FEV that was suppose to exist was the dried up old containers in West-Tek and Mariposa.
But on the other hand, the final boss in F:BOS had FEV too IIRC.

I think what Fallout 3 did wrong was take too many things from Fallout 1 and 2, things that don't even make sense to be simply transplanted to the east coast, and don't even depict them all that accurately.

For some reason there are people who enjoy grinding levels.... as one of my former roommates called it, "Asian grindfest". I think of this as being akin to magpie's hording shiny baubles in their nests. It does not seem entertaining to me, but I can see how the repetitive nature of the exercise could be relaxing or something like that. I am looking forward to Diablo 3 which will have randomly generated dungeons, quests, loot, and a really high level cap for all of my grinding desires. FO is a story driven RPG and without the purpose imposed by the story it loses entertainment value.

Agreements have occasionally been witnessed to occur. Even I have agreed on some points with others.

Was just asking since you put it out in that nice way which breathed like an accusation that something fundamental for an RPG was not understood in the developement - which isn't the case.

Here's a question for ya.

How is a DLC going to work with a ending?

Will it be the same as fallout 3 ending ?

Save just before the ending and then you will be able to continue if you buy the DLC, Then you have another ending rinse repeat for the next DLC if any.

Or

players are forced to create a new character for DLC, hmmm wait that won't be a DLC thats a completely new game.


I'm sure if anyone is forced to recreate a character for the DLC. I doubt they will buy it. If they can't use their current character at the level they are and continue advancing said character they most likely won't buy the DLC.

Now no one can predict what is going to happen and what players will do. We all know people have said I won't do this if that happens. Bethesda is in charge of the DLC's. I really don't envy them on creating a DLC that doesn't completely ruin the games ending that has been chosen.

OH!
http://www.google.se/images?client=opera&rls=en&q=dekaron&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=sv&tab=wi
It's grindtastic!

Baldurs Gate counts as a game with Level Cap, or EXP Cap???

I think a good number of people bought The Pitt and Operation Anchorage.

Let me put it this way... what is the purpose of ending the game as opposed to letting players choose to play on? What sense does that make? Take FO3 with Broken Steel... you can end the game if you want at the culmination of the main storyline, or you can play on. So people who want the stop can stop, and people who like me want to play on can play on.

What advantage is there by forcing people to stop playing whether they like it or not, when some of us could still get a lot of fun out of continuing after the main storyline is over?

To me I don't think there is a right or wrong. If it makes sense to continue playing after the ending then great. If the developers decided it doesn't make sense OR creating the post-game world that has continuity with the ending is going to take more time than they have then a hard ending is fine. I think the only way to get it wrong is to allow continued play after the ending without it making any sense or disallowing continued play after the ending for no reason.

I think that the majority of games out there forces players to stop playing after the final quest/mission/task/objective/campaign

Anyhooo:

The majority of games don't pull in the sales that Oblivion and FO3 pulled in.

Games often ended in the past because of technological restrictions. Fallout 3 style games probably were not possible -- meaning the open world massive feel -- before at the least the PS2/Xbox/GameCube level of consoles. Maybe on PCs but that wouldn't reach the massive audience of console gamers. The amount of cheap storage that's available now makes things possible in terms of open-ended play that just weren't feasible before.

1.) Yeah, the ending might be a bit unfortunate, but it just makes the story all the better.
2.) Be patient, for all Bethesda has shown so far, they could easily come out with a DLC with a higher level cap.
3.) The perk every level thing is so there's an edge. It isn't any fun if your character is just a complete beast and only has to headshot 4 deathclaws and then carry on, the game's supposed to be CHALLENGING.

I don't see what this has to do with it, to be honest. :shrug:


This isn't true at all. There were plenty of RPGs in the '80s that were just as big. I played many of them. Some ended, some didn't. The only things newer games really bring to the table that older games didn't from a technical standpoint is better graphics, better sound, voice acting, etc. The complexity in storyline and plot conventions, complexity of RPG mechanics, etc. are nothing new. In fact, it was actually easier to create randomly generated content and such in older games because you didn't have to worry as much about creating a believable visual experience, so in some ways making your game open-ended was easier in the days before photo-realistic graphics.

If you're hinting that Baldurs Gate didn't have a cap to leveling then it's lost on me because I never played it. Besides, out of the hundreds of RPGs made, that's one example. I didn't say every RPG had a cap either, so I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

Such as the detailed backstory as to how Elder Lyon's brotherhood was different than the east coast leading to Cassadin leaving and forming the outcasts? Such as adding a vault experiment involving FEV so players can enjoy fighting super mutants and to give a reason for the brotherhood to be different than their east coast brothers.
I think they explain the chances quite well


Says who? I don't believe it was ever written in stone FEV could only be at West-Tek and Mariposa. The secret Vault Experiments were after all secret. A third source of FEV was inevitable in the series. If Black Isle had continued the series they'd have engineered and excuse for a fresh batch of mutants eventually.
As I recall from Fallout 1 creating a super mutant required a rather precise exposure time to FEV something it took The Master years of experimenting to perfect, yet somehow the Enclave does it in mass on accident in the ruins of Mariposa.

I guess the purpose is to create and ending that takes the player quirks into account - which are impossible to take into account while creating postend gameplay as it would almost require the work and recources of another full game (let alone that the extra work would only serve those gamers that do actually play after the ending - the core game is something every player experiences, what's after that is not). And let's be honest with this, if the continuation was only an empty world, there would as big of a backlash for the same - and some other - mouths that now spout over the lack of continuance.

Sorry, I don't think Wizardy and Bard's Tale qualifies as just as massive.... but they were fun. (I just wanted to name drop those, sorry.)

As for the sales thing... the point is merely that there are a TON of games that rely on story, and a TON of games that are shooters. Why was TES4 and FO3 so successful where others have been mediocre? There are of course different reasons for this, but I think one of the main reasons is because they let you immerse yourself in the game play. I never played TES 1 and 2, I started with 3 and 4... and what sold me right away with 3 was, wow, this game is totally open and it's like another world that I can visit whenever I want and play as long as I want... that's why to me it was so much better than the Fable franchise. I got so much play out of that game. FO:NV, I got a few weeks ago and I'm already done with it... at least, the excitement is done.

Agree 100% - and with New Vegas there isn't much post-ending content to play through.

The replay value in this game is in making new characters and trying a different path through the quest lines, trying new NPCs, etc. My next play-through will be the evil slaver type, and definitely won't be with Boone, Veronica or Cass - maybe Lilly or Raul.

I think its definitely possible for a modder to create a post-game DLC, but Obsidian/Bethesda may have plans for that. When you think about it; the the fact that they Didn't kill the player this time means they can go right into a DLC story-wise that would continue on after the main quest (just as Broken Steel did, but without the player death to undo this time).

I have to side with Obsidian/Bethesda on this one; they do give us the huge warning about the ending and a good option for leaving and coming back when ready. But for now, the replay is really in trying all the different player paths IMHO.

*Equips Lloyd's G-Spotter and targets OP* *G-Spotted* *Alien Death Ray Beam -SCROOOOSHGHHG-*
I like this thread, It makes me laugh... I played WoW for a year, one of the worst role-playing experiences ever, its more of a number-crunching game than a role-playing game... Dont you dare try to say Fallout should learn from that abortion...
Level caps are RPG-tastic, Endings are RPG-rific, and I've yet to meet one who could outsmart laser.