YES. I learned very quickly in Oblivion (and told friends who started playing after I did) NOT to go to Kvatch for Martin right away. Martin will keep. For a LONG time. I play the main quest up to that point, and then just ignore it while I mess about the sandbox doing faction quests and wandering the countryside. I hated that after Kvatch the &$#*!! Oblivion gates start popping up all over the place complete with annoying Daedra that made navigation a real pain.

I decided to do the same thing in Skyrim. I played the MQ up to the point where I visited the Greybeards, but have left old Windcaller's horn right where it is for now. Until you progress past the first mission with Delphine, the ancient dragons don't resurrect. This means I only have lesser dragons buzzing me whenever I fast travel, so I can pretty much ignore them unless they decide it's time to die by attacking me and my housecarl. Sometimes they just circle for a long time and then fly away. This has given me a good supply of dragon souls, I'm gradually picking up shouts to unlock with them, and I'm having fun just exploring, gathering cash, and improving my smithing and enchanting skills.

It does mean I don't yet have access to some of the shouts, but I like doing the MQ in stages as there are so many other toys to play with. I also think it's more fun to go into the deeper parts of the MQ with a more seasoned and well rounded character. Just my way of doing things, of course. As I've not yet witnessed the later parts of the MQ, I don't have an opinion on how well Bethesda handled the endgame.

I love Elder Scrolls games for a number of reasons. I do think, though, that the original Dragon Age had one of the most impressive conclusions I've ever played. Not only did the main quest resolution depend on several player choices, they also took the trouble just before the credits rolled to detail how many of your lesser choices impacted the game world and the characters you interacted with. Not all of them turned out well, no matter what actions you took. There was no "happy ever after" all round, but more of a balanced sense that this is how the world works and people aren't perfect. They also gave your character the opportunity to speak with every member of the "team" you were adventuring with to sew up loose ends and say goodbye. I thought this was really well done and quite satisfying for me as a player.

Honestly I didn't know there was a main quest too busy doing the other 400 quests.

Yes bethesda games do not have good stories. they have great worlds instead. my opinion f3 (before broken steel) ending was better because it really was the end and letting yourself get killed for mankind sure beats going to heaven beat a guy, bring some dead guys with you, shout like a chicken 3 times and then kill a weak monster.

but then 2011 wasnt a good year for stories. duke nukem, homefront, bf3, rage, brink and batman. all game companies care about is making games with a lot of action so they attract buyers. hopethat when economy improves they will hire some decent story writers.

I wouldn't have said it was TERRIBLE, I wouldn't even say it was bad. Admittedly, I was slightly let down by it but I suppose that was because I had ridiculously high expectations for it. I would say it was okay, but I agree with some other posters on here that it needs more unique bosses and puzzles. It also needed to cover a much larger area of the map, because you hardly need to discover any locations to complete the main quest.

*sniff* *sniff**sniif*
Anyone else smell that? Can't be mine....

This is what I would do:


- First: Eliminate the entire "Dragon War" concept. It was poorly written, seemed forced, and didn't work. Totem Gods, however, should have been kept and expanded on greatly. Dragon worship was cool, but not the Dragon War. The other Eight should have been expanded on. Particularly: Who's who?

- Totem gods are cemented as the old Nordic pantheon. This is what I think Bethesda was going for.

- The Dragon Totem cult remained (especially in the rural east) but unpopular; crushed by the other Totems in the East and the Nine in the West. This is not an evil cult, either. They're rational, and believe the kalpa must come to an end. Very passive, like the Greybeards. Or, this cult is popular and connected to Talos and Shor. Ysmir, the Dragon of the North is connected to Shor.

- The lore being Dov themselves also remains. It's good, but the Dragon War is not. The dov are srill wiped out by Dragonguard porgroms. Just not by rebeling Nords.

- Along with the Dragon War, the three great heroes are also removed. Wulfharth and other Ysmir are expanded on.

- Alduin is learned about by exploring Nordic legends, historical sources, Greybeards, asking priests (most of them found the Old Holds). Futhermore, Totem god vs Imperial Nine should have been a center of the Civil War, along with Talos worship.

- Quests beyond dungeon runs/fetch quests. This is the primary reason I want information gathered by talking to bards, priests, cults, ect.

- Alduin would not appear until near the end of the game. Most information about him is built up through legends, like I mentioned above. How being a Dragonborn relates to Alduin would also be expanded on. "He can beat Alduin cause the legends say so" is not enough information to build a story around. I feel like these legends, combined with his end game appearance would make him more threatening. Watching a little dragon fly around rezzing his buddies makes him come across as boring. Other dov are doing the resurrecting.

- The dragons (or Alduin by himself) attack at least one city in force. Whiterun, perhaps, since the MQ makes it feel like home. The city survives, of course, but heavily damaged. To show this, guard number is reduced by half and at least two irrelevent civlians are killed. And some members of the court, depending on who is incharge.

- The final battle would be a titanic clash on the Throat of the World. Either you win here, or Alduin kills you and you win later. Alduin, due to rural eastern legends (and dialogue with you after he appears), is made to be more sympathetic.

The first couple of mage ones are decent enough,. The Wolf Queen did alright at the mass mook brawl too.
Alduins problem is that hes just another dragon with 3000 extra health and his silly meteor shout.

I compare to the Castlevania Lord of Shadows dracolich fight. Which was the same as two earlier titans in that game, but whereas they attacked in semi-individual manners, the dracolich literally was just the climbing and avoiding shaking parts of it extended for a half hour or so. Sure, it looked pretty, but it was ludicrously boring and a chore.

HOLY thread necro, batfolks! Good LORD.

The thread had posts as recently as early January, before someone posted today, Feb 1, That doesn't really qualify as a thread necro.

Okay, thanks for info....

I noticed that; the dragons all use the exact same Thu'um. Only Alduin had anything really unique.

Alduin's problem is that there is not much unique to him. No special tricks, no change of tactics, no additional powers, and to compound that problem we are given 3 allies that cannot die and deal respectable damage, making our presence there largely superfluous. In my opinion, he should have been beefed up to be so strong, that it actually justified us having three allies...because it would be impossible without their help.

He honestly should have had phases, and other things that prolonged the fight. Nevermind the fact that his stat scaling is messed up as well.

Hey I've got an idea for the next game. You start out as the crown prince(ess) and end up getting executed in the end. That would be unique for an RPG wouldn't it. Make it a good old Shakespearean tragedy, and leave you with a totally empty feeling. The question is, even if the writing were fantastic and the world exploration fantastic, would you buy it?

Actually no. Oblivion TG had you actually sneaking pass guardians, especially the last quest.

Skyrim TG have you just walk in the front gate Conan style and kill everything in sight. Those missions could have been in the Companions and no one will notice.

Also, when you become the Oblivion guildmaster (and wear the cowl), everyone respects you even if they all say the same thing. Dirge warns you not to start trouble even if you are the friend of the guild master, when you ARE the guildmaster. And no just him, the whole guild never acknowledges you as guildmaster.

Now I don't have anything relevant to add to the current discussion, but please forgive me as this has caught my eye. Lore wise, I'm not sure if this statement is true, but in the game, it's more than possible to destroy all four Greybeards in a direct confrontation. Granted you would have to make them non-essential, otherwise it would be kind of pointless, something of which is possible on the PC.

I just finished it to today for the first time.

The ending did feel a bit lacking and the final battle wasn't anything particularly memorable.

I had expected a video at the end with a voice-over to wrap up the main quest like they did with the Oblivion (and most other games for that matter).
But all they give you is a few lines of dialogue from a few odd npcs and that was it. Not really a very good wrap-up. Some sort of sweeping overview of Skyrim and how your victory made a difference with a voice-over would have been nicer.

The MQ did have some very epic locations though. It was enjoyable enough. I did get tired of listening to all the long-winded ramblings of all the boring old men in MQ though. Really liked Paarthy though.

The prophecy in Skyrim was revealed in the trailer! In OB you're told by the emperor he has seen you OB visions and such but the entire damn thing isn't blown right off the bat. Skyrim says up front that a big bad dragon is here and prophecy says you are going to kill him. This eliminates any chance for story development, It's already laid out for you.

Luke Skywalker, Frodo Baggins, Harry Potter and a plethora of other characters have all been the subjects of destiny and prophecy. I think the difference is that most subjects of prophecy have that status challenged. With Luke, it could have been Leia, with Frodo, Sam had to destroy the ring in the end, with Harry, Neville could have been the 'chosen one' etc. etc. Besides that, story and character development is abolutely possible. "No, I am your father." is still one of the most famous twists of all time.

I also think there's room to adress the idea that the people of Skyrim are pressuring the Dragonborn into fighting off Alduin. There's no real organised effort to fight back against the dragons, despite all the legends of nordic dragonslayers and the Thalmor's worries concerning dragons. The only group seeking to end the dragons' assaults is the Blades, who are barely a group at all and don't exactly shun the idea of the Dragonborn saviour. I would have thought that some proud nords would dislike being 'saved' and would prefer to save themselves. Farkas and Vilkas are keen to hunt dragons, but, that's it, really.

Skyrim's plot is still better than the last decade's worth of Final Fantasy games.

I'm with the OP. The main quest just lost me. I actually got to the final fight...and walked down the mountain away instead.

Yep. I said "no..this doesn't interest me." Never had that happen before.

Yeah but all of those stories involved other developed characters who did things and had uncertain futures. In Skyrim this isn't the case, It's you vs The Monster with some other superfluous characters whose sole purpose is to tell you the story you're in the middle of. Everyone around you is invincible so you don't need to worry about their safety and you never get invested enough to give a [censored] about them anyways.

The most disappointing part of the MQ for me tho was Dragonsreach Only Bethesda could manage to screw up something that potentially awesome.

Except, and correct me if I'm wrong, but once you get out of Helgen, you can go off in any direction and do whatever you want. If you choose never to go to Whiterun and warn the Jarl, the fact that you're Dragonborn never even comes up and you can go play DB, TG, Daedric quests, etc. without ever becoming involved with Dragons, Greybeards and whatnot. I kinda feel like the Emperor repeatedly telling you about his dreams and your destiny etc. in Oblivion was much more limiting as far as roleplaying after the tutorial.

The main plot in skyrim was actually kind of weak but it compensates for all the things and quests you can do....but in my case its far from being the worst of the year...

It's not the questline that disappointed me it is the lack of reward. I feel like I didn't do crap.

Well when you bring up what you can do instead of the MQ youre no longer discussing the quality of the MQ which is what this is about.

Right. And the specific criticism of the MQ that I was responding to was that it pigeonholes you as the Dragonborn. IMO you are less pigeonholed by Skyrim's opening than you are by Uriel Septim's comments in the Oblivion opening.