Well, I was referring to situations that will actually happen in Brink - Heavies holding down an area, and never straying to far from teammates and/or the objective. See, all you Light [censored] forget to realize that Heavies not only have the most firepower and health, bu they also have strength in numbers, since they typically stay with a group and hold down areas, while teammates watch their backs, heal them, etc. The chances that you are going to be so lightning quick that you will be able to get past my teammates and kill me, is slim to none. Even if you do manage to pull it off, there is a high chance that either A) a Medic will be nearby to revive me or in my case, looking forward to playing Heavy Medic, I will simply revive myself.

Exactly.




Simply put you heavies can't be everywhere and there are always multiple objectives, I would start of by killing the medics then move on to other targets. BTW no light is simply going to rush your position. They would flank and attack where their not expected. Also I will be sure to finish you off given the opportunity to spot those pesky revives. Or boobytrap your body with a sticky grenade.

medium-

doesnt take advantage of either life or reach, its only good for begginners who dont know which way to go, see if the lose health to quickly (go heavy) or are in the wrong place at the wrong time (go light)

expect a lot of people to switch to medium when they realize lights die too fast and heavies move too slow

Funny because we all start at medium.

That's what I've been saying


I think just about everyone will have a Light character to fully take advantage of SMART, and I wouldn't be surprised if Heavies are the least common - although I doubt they'll be at all uncommon. The character I'm most excited about putting together is a Heavy Operative with an emphasis on playing dead and the offensive abilities rather than disguises.

This, but heavies will be uncommon. At least in competitive play.
It's nearly impossible to balance out heavy and light classes. Either lights will move too fast that it it doesn't pay off for heavies, or heavies will do too much damage and it's just op. There's really no in between; i haven't seen it yet in any video game in which stuff like that is balanced out. Furthermore, the guns a heavy gets are too unique and pubish (grenade launcher, minigun) in that they are just going to be pub characters at the most.
Depending on how much slower you actually move and how much more firepower a rifle dishes out over an smg (which i don't think should be much), the game is going to be based between mediums and lights as movement is an extremely important factor in any game, and in this game the devs are emphasizing it.
I still think a light should be able to use an AR and a pistol and a medium can use two guns, because in videos their hotboxes aren't noticeably larger and i highly doubt an experienced player can't get to places a light can with SMART with some skill. But if an smg is on par with a rifle, it's a different story.

Heavies may be useful in defense, but only if they are in position before lights reach the hot zone. And after all lights will probably (hopefully) be able to reach spots heavies can't, thus use routes heavies can't.

And if a light is able to backstab a heavy, they won't be invincible at all.


Movement is an important factor, this is correct. But movement-speed is not as much.

Assuming players of equal still a heavy played defensively will probably be a very difficult opponent for a single light. However a heavy on the move won't be able to keep track of their surroundings as well so they're more open to an attack from a light.

If a light is trying to invade enemy territory it means they could have a very difficult time with heavy defenders, but heavies going for objectives in the middle of the map will more likely encounter an ambush.

True, but i can't see things like a grenade launcher being allowed in competitve play. A heavy can take in reality maybe like 3 more bullets; their hitboxes are large too so they'll drop pretty easily. Any more or less they'll be too weak or too strong though (rough estimate)
Point is, even if you're playing defense, you gotta still always be on the move. Most of the gameplay from what i can see is that it's all confrontational; there's no ninja possibilities because of the need of every class so everyone will be head on attacking for the most part. In the end, i just don't see a heavy being able to dish out double the damage and take double too, because that's just op. The large hitbox is something that noone is putting into consideration; its a huge downfall. I'd rather less health and a small hitbox than a bit more health and a larger hitbox...ESPECAILLY on a console. I'm still going to have to say movement speed matters a lot in any game, it's just one of those things you may not recognize, but even a 5% move speed increase is huge. A light to a heavy will probably be in the realm of 15-20% and that is very useful.
It's just my two cents, and from previous games, having a heavy type character is either op or up, and usually its up because a smart dev will reward the harder, more skillful class to play (light).

I think it would be unfair to limit heavies weapons in competitive play, as that is half of the reason to be a heavy. "Powerful" does not have to mean "unbalenced", and the only reason to ban things in a competition is to prevent a weapon that is overpowered. Heavy grenade launchers are going to be powerful for sure, but with their limited ammo and risk of killing the user, will be very situational weapons. So using one means a heavy has to use their secondary weapon most of the time.

All three body types have their purposes. Being forced to stick with one bodytype each match will make mediums quite attractive, as you can be offensive, defensive, change combat roles, change classes, all while still being quite effective. Heavies will be able to defend and push like no one else, sometimes using lights to tactically take an objective isn't going to work, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and push past 3 sentries. Lights are rushing and ambush specialists, with enough skill you could take out anyone, but they quickly get mowed down when they are facing large numbers. The best teams will be a balance of all 3.

You are picturing a world too idealistic for gameplay, that simple.
This is a game where movement will dominate; a light would be better against multiple people because of their ability to out flank and outmaneuver people with smaller hitboxes; a light with more skill can be more defensive than a heavy. That's the way it should be anyway.

You are clearly misinformed...

Movement will not "dominate" in this game. If that was so, then everybody would pick Light, Mediums would be underplayed and Heavies would just be a waste of memory - This isn't Mirror's Edge. If anything would "dominate" in this game It would be having a good aim, having good situational awareness. All the backflips, slides and flanking won't matter, if I kill you regardless.

this next part is important boys and girls, so pay attention: BODYTYPE = PLAYSTYLE. Each body type caters to different one, and there is no "best."

If you understand the proper way to play a body type, and utilize their pros to the fullest and avoid their cons, then you are doing it right. Brink is not going to be a game where if you master a specific body type (in this case, Light) then you will be untouchable and dominate every other player on the battlefield (that isn't Light.) It is also not going to be a game where if you do not master one aspect of the game (in this case, movement) then you will lose every time. You also totally disregard that classes, abilities and loadouts will have a much greater effect on how scenarios play out, than bodytypes do.


(sigh) Here we go, the "Lights take more skill to play than Heavies" argument - this thing has been done to death. Riddle me this Batman, If Lights are so much "harder" to play, then why do they appeal to so many players over Heavies? Don't you think if they were that hard to play, more people would be opting for something (in your terms) "easier" (Medium) or maybe even the "easiest?" (Heavy) Do you really believe the Lights popularity is because players are thinking to themselves, "if I master this harder to play class, I'll get better rewards out of it in the long run!" - sorry, but I don't think that is their reasoning behind it.

The Lights popularity is attributed to pop culture. Whether it be games, movies or comic books, the light (or medium), agile fighter, tends to be the hero or the popular choice. Even in instances where a Heavy is the main character (like a Hulk or Juggernaut comic) \their popularity is usually dwarfed by Lighter, more agile comic book characters. Look at the characters in games - Sam Fisher, the guys in Assassins Creed and Prince of Persia (never played them,) Link, Mario, Master Chief, Ryu and Ken, Ninja Gaiden, Simon Belmont, The characters in Mirror's Edge, Samus, Mega Man, are you seeing a pattern here.... For Brink, a light, agile "sneaky" character + Sniper Rifle, knife, smg and/or Operative class (spy or rogue) = appeals to a lot of people, regardless of how "hard" they are to play - it all comes down to a "cool" factor. Yes, there are players that want to use Light because they excel at that playstyle, but if all the people who want to play Lights, want to do so because they are good at it (in polls, Lights have around double or more the appeal than Heavies) then Lights really don't appear to be that hard to play at all. In fact, (based off current trends and polls) The Heavy, if not the hardest to play, will be the most valuable, due to their scarcity.

In music terms, Light's are like guitar players - they are a dime a dozen. Due to their abundant supply, finding a good one is just a matter of time. Heavies are like singers or drummers - They are the hardest to find because there are so few of them, so finding a good one can be even harder.

Your explanations and discussions are so one-sided, they are laughable. The bottom line is this - to you, movement is key and to you , mastering it is everything, most likely, because it compliments your playstyle. Movement means nothing to me, because I'm going to be hangin back with my homies, buffing and healing, and providing support, because that's how I enjoy playing, and what I am best at. So you can master all the running and jumping you want, because when you come in the direction of a Heavy, pointing a minigun at you the size of a tree trunk, that has a 200 round magazine and fire faster than you can run, then in the words of Trinity, "Dodge this."

Oh, and the flanking argument is dead as dead as well, since a good Heavy will either be watching his flanks, be in a place where teammates are watching the flanks, or position himself where flanking is increasingly difficult or impossible. lol, it humors me how in all these "Light vs Heavy" scenarios, the Light is always an elite, trained assassin, the Heavy is just some big, dumb, idiot with a gun.

[censored] yes, Heavy and Medium

Nothing will be useless. Each class will be good in their own ways. You just have to play it right. They all have their own advantages and cons compared to other builds to balance eachother out.

Another misconception people have here when comparing bodytypes, is that they tend to base their assumptions on 1v1 encounters - "A Light is better than a Heavy because he ca do this, this and this, and the Heavy would die." Uhhh, where's all the other players? It is an 8v8, team objective game, with teams being comprised of multiple bodytypes. How often do you expect to have a 1v1 encounter, and even if you do, being able to win a 1v1 battle, isn't something that makes a bodytype "better" and it isn't something that is going to win you games.

There are soo many variables that should be taken into account when engaging someone in a firefight. It's just that there's so few information that we always seem to talk about "A is better than B, because..."

I want you to give me one class based game that was competitively balanced and successful in which a heavy class was balanced.
Please.
Because it doesn't work.
Keep in mind my argument is for competitive play, not for pubbing around with your friends.

I refuse to read all of your wall of text because it simply doesn't work; they'll either be too tanky and/or deal too much damage or they aren't tanky enough for their dps. I'm sorry for competitive play i don't see a fair balance to run a heavy unless their guns are just ridiculously strong. The slower movement and large hitbox is good for 1v1s, but bad when there's a large ammount of people because your a bigger target that can't escape/juke as easily. It's a team game and yeah a heavy can have a role, sure, but that will depend on the maps layout to see if running a heavy would be worth it. The only thing they'd be good for is holding a specific side area, but with our lack of knowledge in terms of the dynamics of the gameplay and map layouts it's too hard to tell.
For everything else, a light is going to be better at FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY.
Thats what, 90% of the time?
What i'm trying to say is a light can work picks a lot easier and a heavy which in reality i'd believe in their current builds can take 4ish shots more to the chest with a larger hitbox isn't going to compensate...at all. For pubs sure, but not for high caliber play.
Your bringing up the argument of pop culture, LOL its a game.
Slow movement plus large hitbox is very bad, even if they had like 1.5x ammount the health of a light a light would work out better for competitive play. Being in the back "buffing your homies" isn't suiting competitive play; thats pubs. From what it looks like, team chem is going to need to be on spot with a lot of coordinated attacks and plays that are going to have to be bang-bang. And a light can buff, too.
Like i said, please prove me wrong. Even though this is all speculation.

Three bodytypes just doesn't work in terms of balance, especially when you don't look at the extremes. I see a big confrontation between medium and light; if smgs aren't that good, then light will be useless, and if they are good, will a medium still move at a decent enough speed to tradeoff the fact of carrying two extra guns? It's hard to say.

SET classes are a bit easier to balance because they have specific roles..here, any bodytype can do anything.

Trolls in Shadowrun, Tanks in Monday Night Combat.


Oh look, I gave you two.

Monday Night Combat was a noname game so i can't testify; in Shadowrun trolls had a purpose though; here a heavy is just someone who takes more/deals more damage, you can't compare. In Shadowrun, each class had specific and individual abilities. Two completely different types of games.
I'm not going to argue about a speculation; i know what i know and for competitive play where a bodytype like the heavy has no set abilities that differentiate it from the other classes it comes down to straight-up health and damage output balancing, and it's hard to do, something you can't argue against.
We'll see what happens.

Quite agreed that their is no best playstyle.

But that is where you are wrong, because bodytypes do have "abilities" in a sense. Heavies have more than just more health and firepower. They also have the largest ability bar, so although every bodytype can use the same abilities and buffs, the Heavy can do the most before they need to recharge. Essentially, this makes Heavies the ideal choice for players that want to maximize ability usage for any given class. This also makes Heavies an ideal "go to guy" for buffs, heals, ammo, etc. making them very team friendly, and thus someone teammates will want to help keep alive.

You are aware that on top of the extra health Heavies have by default, there is also a universal ability that increase your health further and Soldiers can get a Kevlar Vest ability, to make them tougher still, not to mention Medics can buff health yet again and Engineers can boost weapon damage. Add to that access to every weapon in the game and being able to use the most abilities of all the bodytypes, before their "mana" runs out. Then put him in the hands of a skilled player and I'd say regardless of his speed (or lack of), I would definitely want that guy on my team.

Do you not read?
I clearly stated competitive play. There's no reason that a team shouldn't be able to all buff eachother as lights played properly. Kevlar Vest would help lights more than heavies, because lights move faster and have smaller hitboxes meaning the extra hp gives them more survivability than a heavy would.
Body types don't have an ability, they excel in certain areas. Problem is, certain areas mean more, and certain areas its near impossible to find a favorable balance FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY. I'm not talking about pubs. I'm sure anyone can do just fine with a heavy in pubs played properly, they have their role.

You seem to be getting "competitive play" confused with "most efficient killing machine." Hate to bust your bubble, but this isn't Team Deathmatch. Killing has its purpose, but isn't the holy grail. Just to give you some info on my background.

I have been playing FPS games for over 15 years and have played in competitive clans and leagues for both RTCW and a previous game of Splash Damage, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory - both of these games follow the same class-based, team objective formula that Brink is doing. I was approached to join these clans based off my performance and my strongest class was Medic. The main reason they asked me to join was because I was an exceptional Medic player - I kept others alive, I was quick and accurate with the revive needle and was good at avoiding enemy fire. Something I did not do a lot of, was kill. Yes, I was competent enough to get kills, but it wasn't my prime focus - playing Medic was, and I was/am damn good at it.

Due to my playstyle, (and just playing Medic in general) I attracted a lot of enemies, and relied primarily on teammates defending me. I mention this to make a point that competitive gaming isn't all about "small hitboxes" and "survivability." Yes, it is an important aspect, but in a SD style team objective game (which I'm not sure if you experienced before) it is by far NOT the key aspect. I am not just some "scrub" or "pub hero." I understand how competitive gaming works, and have participated in it as well. I understand tactics and strategies and have developed them with teammates, so based on that, what I stated does in fact have to do with competitive play, or to be more specific, competitive play in Brink and/or SD-style games. If you have never played an SD-style game, and instead are basing your theories and ideas from experience in other shooters, than God only knows how accurate your assumptions are, especially since Brink hasn't even been released yet.

Even compared to previous SD titles, Brink brings a lot of new aspects to the table. Between the different body types, different ability combination, and different weapon proficiencies between players (and the SMART system) no one can simply say "this body type will be the best and this one will not," in a game as innovative and unique as Brink.

Chances are, the comp community will make a promod, which will disable most of the the features in the game anyway.

Finally, I would like to add, that your concern or speculations for what will/will not work for competitive play, may be falling on deaf ears, since a majority of the people here - I'd say between 80% - 90% (possibly higher) just want to play to the game. They are not concerned about comp play and have no interest in joining a clan and/or a league. And even those players who are interested in joining a clan, not all of them are looking for a serious, competitive clan, and instead are just looking for a group of people to play with.
In other words, even if what you say turns out to be 100% accurate, most of us simply don't care and are going to play what they want to play regardless. I think the TC himself, was making this as more of a "for fun" topic.

How would you know if he proved you wrong if you "refuse to read his post?"
Based on the way you responded to different points in his post, I'm inclined to believe that its just a way to avoid responding to certain parts of what he said.

But anyway, Since you are asking for sources where Heavy characters are balanced, I would like to ask for games where they are not balanced, like you seem to think are everywhere. So far you have only mentioned TF2, which if you ask me is balanced pretty well, all things considered, and is still being tweaked to this day. Natasha is a bit OP, but they are working on fixing that in their current beta. Yes, one on one, the heavy is overwhelming, but both teams can use them, and they are an important part of most teams. At the same time, a team that was all heavies or all heavies and medics would fail.

You site TF2 as an example where heavies fail, but in my experience, a team with a good balance of all of the classes is the one that does the best. This is what I said earlier, and you described it as being far too hopeful or a perfect situation, but I've seen it work out that way in a real, competitive, game.