Another cynical critical confession.
TBH Skyrim came very close to the Morrowind moment, and i still have glipse of very near coming to that point. Theres very few items that still diferenciate MW from Skyrim.
I m no grafical [censored], i couldn t care less if a line is wrong, i look at the whole.
After playing many hours (70+) and not progressing far i can surely say the following obvious weak points arent killers:

Low texture that are SO visible on big screen (37" here)don t kill immersion but bother,
An absolute piss poor quality light management dont kill but bother.
The clear sensation the team that was involved indoor never talked with the team that worked outdoor to align, light, brightness, contrast, and other item is so clear its bring tear of rage,
The lack of customization and choices in character creation don t kill but bothers.
The lack of viable non abusive gameplay, without spamming potions and without using restoration magic is a pain in the ass.
The complete failure of implementing food in a usefull, logical way don t kill but bothers
The lack of obvious itens in crafting don t kills but bothers.
The lack of dialogue in most situations is almost a killer, they could very well have made part voiced and part written dialogue.
The lack of a decent journal due to the assumption everybody lie to be spoon fed and hand holded is a pain.
The PC receiving a total console game when it was promised to be a superior product is a piss on the face of the player base
The clear unbalance at walking/running
The engine with clear issues and limitations present since Morrowind are a deception
And the killing of RPG elements using as excuse the dumbness of the customers is sad (OK its a valid point as most never saw they were being called dumb [censored]s in RP arguments, and thats why they were streamlining)
But all this IS understandable and extremely logic when you observe that:
The main base platform had reached its limits, and many features couldn t be rightly implemented or refined, because there wasn t any more disc space.


Would bethesda have choosen a less weak platform and thus be able to refine Skyrim, then it would have sit at Morrowind and Daggerfall.

I only hope one thing:
Next title, the company, doesn t limit itself to one of the the weakest Hardware/software integration avaliable on the market.
They have enought money so don t have to lower themselves to limit themselves because of writing size limits.

Morrowind may not have been true to the RPG genre, but it was certainly close enough. It was also developed for the PC, and later ported to the Xbox.

Skyrim is different. It's a console game. It's been dumbed-down and streamlined to the point where it's no longer unique. They've crossed the line and ventured too far beyond the RPG genre, simply for the sake of making money. You're right. I know you're right, but Bethesda has gone too far this time, and TES (as it once was) is likely never to recover.

IMO it all boils down to what was your first TES experience, and by that I mean really play it and not try it out for an hour.

I started out with Morrowind when I was around 13 years old on its release year, had never played anything like it with that type of freedom, it felt so huge compared to anything else I had played at the time. It was a great feeling, which I have never felt since, I was hoping to get it again with Oblivion but it didn't happen, same with Skyrim. They are both excellent games however.

A friend of mine has the exact same feeling, although he started with Daggerfall which he prefers above all.

I dont get the same feeling playing Morrowind today, as I've played it to death, and I dont think it will ever happen again with any game as I was much younger and inexperienced in gaming, that greatly affects how you see things.

I'm sure there are many out there who just got into TES through Skyrim and are having that feeling now, which is probably why they defend the game no matter what and dont understand what some people are "whining" about.

"The elderly always let nostalgia cloud their memories"

Trying to be objective: Skyrim is on par with Morrowind in my opinion, better in some aspects, worse in some others.

@Greed

Skyrim represents a reboot of the series and I kinda like it. You are still able to be godlike, you can choose not to be, you still have many different ways of customizing your character and other than in Morrowind your char can't become good at everything.

//edit

And I've gotta say, absorbing my first dragon soul kinda was like my Morrowind moment.

I have played Morrowind when I was young and I didn't like that game. I find Skyrim more entertaining. I am actually glad I don't feel the Morrowind moment because if I did I would've burned my Skyrim disc already.

I'll never capture that "Oblivion" moment again...

Nostalgia ?

Why would you like it? It offers far less freedom than Morrowind ever did and would rather hold your hand than allow you to explore.

How can you think a game is immerse when it tells you where you're going, what'll you find, how to get there, and what to do while you're there? You aren't exploring as much as you're reading a map. It's like being shown the next chapter in a book before you're even finished with the current one. It's the exact opposite of Morrowind. The world is beautiful -- don't get me wrong -- but the game isn't. I don't feel as though I'm actually there, like I did when playing Morrowind.

I do agree. Some parts are awesome. Seeing my first dragon, killing my first dragon, absorbing my first soul.. it was all very awesome. Especially the Draugr and shouts.

.. but the excitement didn't last long. It ended, very quickly, and that's the part I miss most about Morrowind. On every character I ever created, there were still things that exited me. Telvanni Mage or Redoran Warrior, the game was always different, and even though I knew what to expect at times.. I still felt that sense of wonder, and that's what kept me playing. Skyrim, unfortunately, doesn't have that for me.

Does anyone else feel that one of the bigger failures of Skyrim is in trying too hard? There are simply TOO MANY bandit forts and draugr caves and even though they're designed way better than in Oblivion it starts to really drag even in the 1st play-through towards the 60th or 80th hour.. for some, maybe much sooner. Then there's the quests.. for every unexpectedly awesome quest there are a MILLION random quests that just serve to send you to MORE draugr caves or bandit forts and piss you off in the meantime if you are a true ES player (eg obsessive quester who hates the feeling of 40+ unfinished quests in the journal at any time). When you find yourself avoiding talking to people for fear of another bullsh*t radiant quest you know the game is doing something wrong.

I'm not gonna go into all the other stuff that me and a million other people already discussed to death here (such as the fact that Skyrim's character and armor/weapon models make Morrowind and Oblivion look really sad, and that that is, imho, Skyrim's single biggest improvement to the series) and instead I'm just gonna conclude with this - Skyrim simply tries to do too much while simplifying in areas it shouldn't. Therefore, it's not nostalgia that makes us old MW players resent it somewhat.. we only do because so much of it is so good that it feels like it -should- be the next, better, MW, but it never becomes it.

If the next ES game takes everything that's good about Skyrim and just focuses more on QUALITY of quests and dungeons rather than their quantity, in the process returning the skill system to something a little more complex, we -will- have a winner. There will always be things that MW will still do better but for now, this will do for me.

Okay, so I would like to clear something up because some people get the wrong idea (Proof of ignorance in my opinion)

I love Morrowind as an RPG and a game in the TES series, for many reasons, but that does not mean I am delusional or Nostalgic or whatever rationalization you want to put on it when someone realizes that Skyrim has flaws.
Morrowind had flaws, some pretty severe ones, yes the combat was terrible, Skyrim does it better, yes the graphics today are extremely subpar, Skyrim does them better, yes the game was buggy and mildly unstable at times, Skyrim is more stable (Barely), Yes NPCs don't have much voiced Dialogue unless they are Important plot characters or final villains, Skyrim has more voiced Dialogue obviously and that's a good thing.

What else should I list? Because I guarantee you I'm not forgetting anything that was wrong with that game, but I certainly remember being able to put up with the flaws and Hardware limitations because the game was WORTH IT, Skyrim has a Fantastic world and setting and looks great with some nice little features, but all it's biggest flaws are unfortunately extremely important ones that Morrowind managed to get right (Or simply do better)

That's the point, because sometimes a Beautiful world is not everything, even more so when we Know Bethesda are capable of making them over and over and over and over, so forgive me if when it comes to the Elder Scrolls, I expect a bit more substance rather than beauty.


This is not being tricked by Nostalgia, but just plain fact.

So true and well put.

You are all extremely jaded. I include myself in this.

As another poster said, enjoy it on its own merit.

Ebonknight, I haven't logged as many hours as most but I agree with you that I don't like filtering through the garbage quests. I seriously need to leave the forums... ugh... I'm tired of becoming so critical of a $60 investment. If most of us channeled our energy and passion into other areas, we'd be better off.

One thing I know is that I'll never have that "Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord" feeling again. You can never really match the immersion that can only be achieved by needing graph paper to map out the dungeon and take notes.

Nah, guys, I don't think we're doing all this for nothing.. thing is.. NOTHING out there compares to Bethesda ES games.. not saying there aren't games with better storylines, characters, hell, maybe even more completely rounded games than the ES games..but -that- breadth of lore, things to do, massive freedom to explore a huge game-world.. -nobody- else does it, period. So with that respect we are only criticizing Skyrim because like it a lot but wanted to LOVE it. It does so many things right, including a lot of things that Oblivion got wrong and possibly even more things that BOTH OB and Morrowind got wrong (for example, technology has nothing to do with how ridiculously stupid most armor designs were in Morrowind. And I have played and loved Morrowind more than any other game ever made so that's about as objective an anolysis as you can get).

On the other hand.. it's not just venting our frustrations.. a -lot- of criticisms that Oblivion took were, at least somewhat, alleviated in Skyrim, and that's precisely why it's painful to see some other things done even worse, rather than better (length and meaningfulness of guild quests, skills getting simplified etc.) It seems that Beth clearly listens to what we have to say.. but only in some regards. Let's face it.. combat, realistic character/armor models, mannequins and house customization, this is all stuff that they saw people kept making mods about. But at which part did they miss the appreciation for roleplaying mods, taking out GPS mods, immersive journal and questline mods? THAT's what really needs to get stressed out more, and if it takes us [censored]ing another 3 years for something to improve in that regard, I don't think it's time wasted.

Morrowind was the first truly open world RPG. Took over my life from release day until sometime in late 2005, making mods and tweaking it for weeks on end.

With oblivion I made one little mod and was done. Sure I played all the quest lines and explored but never latched on like I did with Morrowind.

Skyrim brings back some of the wonder, but none of the nostalgia, if you can understand that. I'm in my mid 30's and alot of games now are way beyond what they were in 2002, dumbing-down and hand-holding aside.

Morrowind was different, because not only was the gameplay a lot more difficult, but the scales for the UI still leaned in the PCs favor,
when Oblivion came out, it became clear the the Interface had now tipped in the Consoles Favor, and with Skyrim.....well
I have to say, because of the interface in all the recent games I have been playing, I feel like I'm just playing the same game over and over again....

Fantastic Graphics, minimal story

ALL the UIs are looking the SAME to me, and the Interfaces and games are also getting LESS and LESS options...
Character Options between DA1 and DA2....Character Building Skills between ME1 and ME2, both HUGE differences.

Spell Creation Morrowind and Oblivion...gone in Skyrim, among a ton of other things.

The interfaces all look the same to me....Dead space, Deus Ex: HR, Skyrim, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2.....it's like game manufacturers
are trying to make this one "Unified Interface" that applies across all platforms.

The trend I'm seeing is A TON of EYE-Candy, minimal story...

I bought Bard's Tale II: Destiny Knight back in the 80's, it was on 1 5 1/4" floppy, and it took me 7 months, to get through the story, crappy dated graphics, but it kept me playing for 7 months.

Today, games are advertised as "containing" so many "Hours" of gameplay.....'hours?' really?

I'm actually dreading the release of ME3, because comparing the interface from ME1 to ME2, I'm really scared of ME3.

We don't miss Morrowind.
We don't miss CEL/TOP/MRK files.
We don't miss segmented bodies.
We don't miss using CS to know where the quest objective is.
We don't miss being hitted by rat for 5 minutes to max it out.
We don't miss using bound dagger as a wizard.
We don't miss rising Endurance to 100.

We don't miss static world, terrible combat, terrible quests and barren landscapes.

Yeah but at least it wasn't an arcade game like the one you like.

My 'moment' was with Oblivion and its kind of funny when I look back at it.

I had never played a huge open ended game before and Oblivion was the game I got with my first 360, I got out of the sewers and saw an island in the water in the distance, I was convinced I would drown if I went in the water so I was baffled wondering how the [censored] I could do this level and reach the island lmao.

Then I realised once I took the plunge and explored a bit 'holy [censored] you can go anywhere and do what you want, this is absolutely amazing!' Then I was hooked with Oblivion and played it obsessively for years until I got a gaming PC for it and modded it, then I bought Morrowind.

Skyrim didn't give me that magic moment as I am that used to this genre now but I still think it is a masterpiece and much improved.

I still get nostalgic for Oblivion though it makes me laugh every time I step out of those sewers and remembering when I was new to it all.

There's a southpark episode which pretty much sums this up...

Its called "we're all getting older" or something like that. Season 15... Check it out.

That's only your opinion. Morrowind was my first my TES game and I like Skyrim much more. There is no right answer. Many people will say Morrowind is better then Skyrim, many will say Skyrim is better then Morrowind.

It's just that the saying is true.

You never forget your first.

Morrowind was a truly fantastic game.Skyrim it was good but it is like comparing a dentist to a specialist surgeon for the hear. Skyrim can refresh your teeth but your life is indebted to Morrowind.

I feel exactly the same way about the original Dungeon Siege and Unreal but I've come to terms that that was a now long era of games never to return again.

It is sad but time passes quick and as does the mold that made them. I just wish dinosaurs like me didn't get buried behind in the past feeding off scrap hackjobs to band-aid dated content on new hardware and whatever else one saved up before the plugs where pulled the day the games went out of fashion.

I am continually amazed at the continued life-line of Morrowind, it is a freak of nature, undead, risen long beyond it's years, and yet here I am bothering with games from that same era which nobody even friggin' remembers. I'd almost claim it unfair where it not for the irony that I can't even meet someone who's played or remembers Morrowind.

Maybe if I had lost my gamer virginity to the likes of Oblivion & Spore (Both of them absolute let-downs) and the other flops (IMO) of that era I would see very differently today. I'd definitely not have the same tastes about Morrowind, Unreal or Dungeon Siege. I don't think I'd like those games then.

First time first choice, last time last pick. What I had first I long for, what I chose last I put off 'till it was all that was left.

Where's my damn old geezers club of "Talk about the friggin' 80's all day long" except for games of the 1998-2004 era/timeframe? I swear a years a decade these days, slow down world.