New Skyrim article, Ign...

Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:19 am

I read it yesterday and it's a big fail on IGN's part. I know the writer isn't on IGN's staff but that makes no excuse. Terribly bias article and I've lost a lot of respect for IGN if any. The Elder Scrolls is not a choice game in terms of quests, it has never been like that in the history of the franchise, Morrowind explored it a little bit but it's still linear in nature even with that game.

Brilliant rationle you presented there.
Because TES has always been linear, it shouldn't bother you SKyrim is?!
Ah, brilliant.

?Terribly bias article??
Not the least.

Awful logic from your part?
Dead sure.

I'm not naive. IGN probably posts this kind of articles to boost traffic. But this a well thought out and well-presented opinion.
Deal with it.
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Big Homie
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:36 pm

Oh man...
Spoiler
For one we have General Tullius, He appears to be just a soldier that follows orders and A "Thalmor puppet", He is later revealed to hate The Thalmor with A burning passion, He also appears to View his soldiers as Cannon foder, But it is alos revealed later that he cares deeply for his men.

Spoiler
Another is Ulfric Stormcloak, At the begining of the game he appears to be some Perfect freedom Fighter, But It is found out later he is War torn, Possibly Mentally Unstable, Misguided, Shade of his once noble self, Its also revealed that He is indeed racist.

Seriously? You consider them good characters? Characters you can't even talk to except in tiny preprescribed ways? Characters whose views you can no way effect or engage. Instead they just sit there an talk at you? A single companion in NV has more depth, motivation and interactivity than the whole of Skyrim's NPCs. Whatever you find out about Ulfric or the General in no way effects the outcome of anything. They exist in a bubble.
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Chloé
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:42 am

Besthda needs to learn

Relevance? What does that have to do with anything? If you mean one specific scenario then that doesn't make up for all of Skyrim. So Skyrim has that one single reaction. New Vegas only has about 200 of those types of events. Not to mention in New Vegas people talk about what you do since its pretty big stuff. It makes sense the townsfolk thank you and how they act after saving them. In this game if you save a town there is nothing there at all. Hardly any reaction from anything. It's boring as hell. The world is static. You save the world, but it's plastic wrapped. No one acts like its been saved.

Edit
Not to mention the dialogue itself is drone, and monotonous.
That was just example...
Spoiler
After the Civil war is Done, The whole province is changed, Many of the leaders have been replaced, And many leaders are in exile.Another example would be The Daedric quests were there is some very dark momments, Like In vaermias quest You hear dark voice in you heard that tells you to kill the priest, This affect if you can use the priest As a companion, Also There is the quest were You have to steal the horse "Frost", Which has differnt outcomes, Also there is A Daedric quest were you have to choose to literally destroys someones soul to restore The artifact or keep it in its shadowy form. And of course you can destory the dark brotherhood instead of joining it, The resualt is A massive list of people are saved from the fate.
These are just examples.
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:23 am

I never buy a game without consulting IGN. Their reviews mean a lot to me in the sense that I read what they say carefully and then do exactly the opposite.
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Steph
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:54 pm

Except, that's how Morrowind worked. And that's how FO NV works. You know, having to make decisions that matter because they have actual consequences. That's the point of RPGs. Skyrim lets the player do everything all the time which renders everything pointless and utterly destroys immersion just by the pure silliness of it.

Its not how MW worked.
Only the Great Houses were mutually exclusive. There were some minor conflicts between other factions but nothing that couldn't be worked around
Very few decisions in MW had real consequences. Reform the FG or work for its corrupt bosses, either way you ended up killing and replacing the current leader
Much as I love MW in this respect it was not very different to Skyrim
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:17 am

Seriously? You consider them good characters? Characters you can't even talk to except in tiny preprescribed ways? Characters whose views you can no way effect or engage. Instead they just sit there an talk at you? A single companion in NV has more depth, motivation and interactivity than the whole of Skyrim's NPCs. Whatever you find out about Ulfric or the General in no way effects the outcome of anything. They exist in a bubble.
Im saying there well-written characters, The best Bethesda has done, And you can Talk to them A number of times, And you can find Info about them.
Spoiler
The infamous Ulfric Dossier Tells Ulfrics tragic past, Also you find out that in the intro when tullius was talking with the Thalmor, Its revealed that Tullius was Argueing with them, Since they want the realese of Ulfric,
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Ian White
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:52 pm

The article is very true, and there are more flaws that are not stated. What it does, however, is ignore the things that make Skyrim so much fun. If Bethesda made consequences more interesting, NPCs or at least companions deeper, quest lines longer, dungeons less repetitive, Skyrim would be a better game. For all of those flaws and many others, it is still the best RPG out there.

IMHO take to blindly ignore valid criticism is foolish. Conversely, to laser focus on the flaws of a generally excellent product is also foolish.
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suzan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:02 pm

Brilliant rationle you presented there.
Because TES has always been linear, it shouldn't bother you SKyrim is?!
Ah, brilliant.

?Terribly bias article??
Not the least.

Awful logic from your part?
Dead sure.
Examine the game and look at the quests, they have always been linear in nature (Even more so in Oblivion), perfect example for Skyrim the 1st thieves guild quest. You always go to Goldenglow estates and burn the honey, there's nothing different about that quest everytime you do it, that makes it Linear in design, although thankfully we can pick and choose when to do those quests if ever.

I do prefer Skyrim over the previous games because the system is much better, we aren't restricted by a terrible overuse of Level Scaling system (Oblivion), or incredibly bad combat (Morrowind). Those are improvements over the previous games but the IGN writer won't say that, no he'll still be an RPG elitiest who wants D20 to be the rule set, not the player actions which is what TES is now being aimed at.
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Nathan Maughan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:33 pm

The lack of choices and consequences in general is disturbing indeed.

I have no problem with leveling, maybe BGS should tone it down a little bit in the next game.
Combat is okay in general, but magic is lacking.
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El Goose
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:18 am

In my opinion, the only good thing about Skyrim is the world. If you took away that part, the game would svck.

What game wouldn't svck minus the area(s) you play in?
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:37 pm

That was just example...
Spoiler
After the Civil war is Done, The whole province is changed, Many of the leaders have been replaced, And many leaders are in exile.Another example would be The Daedric quests were there is some very dark momments, Like In vaermias quest You hear dark voice in you heard that tells you to kill the priest, This affect if you can use the priest As a companion, Also There is the quest were You have to steal the horse "Frost", Which has differnt outcomes, Also there is A Daedric quest were you have to choose to literally destroys someones soul to restore The artifact or keep it in its shadowy form. And of course you can destory the dark brotherhood instead of joining it, The resualt is A massive list of people are saved from the fate.
These are just examples.
Great, but your not answering my problem. NOTHING REACTS TO IT! We don't see these leaders dealing with unruly populations their beloved Jarl was head chopped of fin a battle. We don't see a single Dark Brotherhood survivor attack us in a last desparate act of vengance and find his journal where he decries me for such treachery and laments th eloss of his brothers and blood sister or something. So it does change, but nothing does. It's static. Who cares who's on the throne, they all have about the same stuff to say. We defeat the dragon Alduin and yet there are dragons everywhere! They should be a finite amount of them or something. It doesn't make any sense.

Even with the things that change it can't hold a candle to how New Vegas did it. So no, it's all an illusion. It changes, but nothing does. There's never any real consequences we'll see in the game. Oh maybe later on in the next game, but they broke one of the biggest rules. Show don't tell. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell
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Nicholas
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:38 pm

So, basically what Morrowind fanatics/zealots have been saying all along?
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Lovingly
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:34 pm

And unfortunately, Bethesda has become allergic to ticking ANYONE off. To the point where they seem afraid to put ANY rules or restrictions in the game or allow for ANY mishaps, and ironically it's killing their games. Now we can't accidently kill ANY quest NPCs, we can't accidently pick the wrong race (cause they're all practically the same), we can't pick the wrong birthsign or class (because there aren't any) and we can't sign up with the wrong guild because they've made it so NPCs can't react to anything.

....Except, now what's the point in making a second character and doing a second playthrough? It'll feel exactly the same....because it is.

While I agree with your sentiment I have to disagree with your assessment. The lack of restrictions is annoying to some of us but BGS is really smart. These kinds of changes are making their games more popular. People don't want consequences in their RPG's. They want lots of choices but no consequences. They want to be leader of every guild and run around Skyrim with their [censored] Generic Nord Warrior 1,000,002. They don't want to read. They don't want to have to "mess around with spreadsheety stuff like spellcrafting and attributes." They don't want to choose a birthsign at character creation, they want to be able to switch it up on the fly. They want to jump right into the action and "go play, hooorrrrayyyy!" [censored]s!
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claire ley
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:29 am

Well Astrid and Delvin are suppose to be good friends.
And I do agree that Skyrim needs more consequence.
Delvin is very well connected. Then there's the Enthir's friendship with Gallus and Karliah. This doesn't apply to you.
Spoiler
If you're Arch Mage of the College when you need to deal with Enthir as part of the TG, he doesn't treat you any differently than if you couldn't cast Sparks without killing yourself.
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k a t e
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:11 am

While I agree with your sentiment I have to disagree with your assessment. The lack of restrictions is annoying to some of us but BGS is really smart. These kinds of changes are making their games more popular. People don't want consequences in their RPG's. They want lots of choices but no consequences.
At least now the industry is calling them out on it, not just the vocal minority of fans.
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Auguste Bartholdi
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:03 am

The article is spot on. Critics jumped on the Skyrim bandwagon without actually putting enough time into it. Once you do the gloss of the pretty world wears away and you're left with a hack and slash dungeon crawler where nothing you do effects anything, the world seems static and dead, dialog is a joke and the boredom sets in fast.

You'll be seeing a lot of articles of people reconsidering Skyrim in the future I'm sure.

I agree that I think many game critics jumped the gun on Skyrim. The first few hours are the best. I think many critics did not put enough time into the game to give an accurate review. They saw the scope and potential of what Skyrim could be, but not what it actually plays out to be. I do find it very repetitive, especially the miscellanous quests. There should have been far fewer of those and more of the faction quests with much more time put in faction development. The article is right about the lack of consequences. But there's just an overall lack of acknowledgment about what decisions you make and what accomplishments you achieve. I mean even after I am Leader of the Companions I'm still being told by guards, " So you are the new member of the Companions? What do you do? Fetch the mead!?"

Give me a break. :down:
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Bones47
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:10 am

Great, but your not answering my problem. NOTHING REACTS TO IT! We don't see these leaders dealing with unruly populations their beloved Jarl was head chopped of fin a battle. We don't see a single Dark Brotherhood survivor attack us in a last desparate act of vengance and find his journal where he decries me for such treachery and laments th eloss of his brothers and blood sister or something. So it does change, but nothing does. It's static. Who cares who's on the throne, they all have about the same stuff to say. We defeat the dragon Alduin and yet there are dragons everywhere! They should be a finite amount of them or something. It doesn't make any sense.

Even with the things that change it can't hold a candle to how New Vegas did it. So no, it's all an illusion. It changes, but nothing does. There's never any real consequences we'll see in the game. Oh maybe later on in the next game, but they broke one of the biggest rules. Show don't tell. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell
Your seriously Linking TV TROPES!?
Spoiler
And it does change and it is "Telled", if the Stomcloaks control Whiterun The Battleborn are robbed, If you kill kill That Necromancer in the "Star" quest, His minions will ambush you in A random encounter, If you Give "Frost" to the person the black briars will send hired thugs after both of you, If you Kill ulfric the general nordic population will Hate you, But the dummer and argonians will love you, If your A memeber of A guild the guards will comment on that, If you destroyed The Db they will stop sending Hitmen after you. If your A member of the thieves guild The theives ingame wont attack you if you tell them who you are, And will comment saying they say you at there "Inn",
More examples...
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MISS KEEP UR
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:52 pm

I'd argue that the complaints regarding stealth are partially true, but miss the mark. The issue is not so much with constant dice rolls, but with Skyrim's awful level design. The dice rolls are absolutely necessary because every dungeon is highly linear with narrow corridors occassionally opening into larger rooms. But there's no alternative paths in 99 percent of these dungeons, no obstacles behind which you can place yourself. Everything is brightly lit and you are unable to extinguish any of those light sources.

And this doesn't just apply to thief activities. There should be different obstacles that can only be overcome by mages and others that can only be overcome by warriors. This is why levitation/climbing was awesome in earlier TES games. It allowed for truly inventive level design. This no longer exists in Skyrim.

Fix the level design. Give us actual options. Don't abandon the strengths of "open world" as soon as the player steps through a doorway. Then we can start talking about how stealth die rolls should be handled.
I disagree with the leveling being confusing, it was much more confusing in Oblivion where I had to write down the amount of times certain skills went up during the current level just to get a +5, I don't need to that in Skyrim which is a good thing.
Confused, not confusing. The argument is that the system is poor at accounting for when a character improves combat skills versus when they improve non-combat skills. It has nothing to do with how difficult it is for the player to parse, but rather how the game world is effected by the player's leveling choices.
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Anna Beattie
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:45 pm

Your seriously Linking TV TROPES!?
Spoiler
And it does change and it is "Telled", if the Stomcloaks control Whiterun The Battleborn are robbed, If you kill kill That Necromancer in the "Star" quest, His minions will ambush you in A random encounter, If you Give "Frost" to the person the black briars will send hired thugs after both of you, If you Kill ulfric the general nordic population will Hate you, But the dummer and argonians will love you, If your A memeber of A guild the guards will comment on that, If you destroyed The Db they will stop sending Hitmen after you.
More examples...
I agree, there's plenty of reaction in Skyrim to what the Dragonborn does although the reaction doesn't completely change the world though and that's fine by me.
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Melly Angelic
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:19 am

I'd like too see more consequences in Skyrim. The article has a point even though I don't agree on everything but I'd really like to give mercy to the surrendering bandits. :violin:
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Nichola Haynes
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:41 pm

Your seriously Linking TV TROPES!?
Spoiler
And it does change and it is "Telled", if the Stomcloaks control Whiterun The Battleborn are robbed, If you kill kill That Necromancer in the "Star" quest, His minions will ambush you in A random encounter, If you Give "Frost" to the person the black briars will send hired thugs after both of you, If you Kill ulfric the general nordic population will Hate you, But the dummer and argonians will love you, If your A memeber of A guild the guards will comment on that, If you destroyed The Db they will stop sending Hitmen after you. If your A member of the thieves guild The theives ingame wont attack you if you tell them who you are, And will comment saying they say you at there "Inn",
More examples...
It isn't so much the fact that the feature was bad in Skyrim, it worked better in previous games.

We know they can lift their game.
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Marcin Tomkow
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:51 am

The assertion that the gaming world moved on but gamesas exists in its own little bubble is bang-on. From Gamebryo 2.0 to combat mechanics to the world at large, TES has grown but hardly evolved...
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Lizzie
 
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Post » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:40 am

That was just example...
Spoiler
After the Civil war is Done, The whole province is changed, Many of the leaders have been replaced, And many leaders are in exile.Another example would be The Daedric quests were there is some very dark momments, Like In vaermias quest You hear dark voice in you heard that tells you to kill the priest, This affect if you can use the priest As a companion, Also There is the quest were You have to steal the horse "Frost", Which has differnt outcomes, Also there is A Daedric quest were you have to choose to literally destroys someones soul to restore The artifact or keep it in its shadowy form. And of course you can destory the dark brotherhood instead of joining it, The resualt is A massive list of people are saved from the fate.
These are just examples.

The effects of the Civil War are pure window dressing. Absolutely nothing changes in any meaningful way. People who should hate you don't care. Vendors that should no longer sell to you still do. There are absolutely no real consequences. You can still do everything you did prior to the quest.
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Steph
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:30 pm

It isn't so much the fact that the feature was bad in Skyrim, it worked better in previous games.

We know they can lift their game.
In all do respect jagar...Morrowind had NO Consequence at all(Except of course the AWESOME "Alternate" Thingy for the MQ)
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Emily Jeffs
 
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Post » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:39 pm

The assertion that the gaming world moved on but gamesas exists in its own little bubble is bang-on. From Gamebryo 2.0 to combat mechanics to the world at large, TES has grown but hardly evolved...
I don't know about that, Magic has certainly evolved, we can create our own weapons and armor now, the game engine is much more stable then previous games, the open world actually is open world and much more diverse from what Oblivion did, etc.
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Alexander Lee
 
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