I think there are simply people that prefer an open world, with plenty of area to explore buildings/dungeons to go through and kill bad guys and the actual story/quests is irrelevant to their enjoyment of the game.

Then there are those that prefer a story with more depth and actual quests, if the open world that accompanies it is less detailed that is irrelevant.


Things I think we cant argue with:

FO3 definitely had more options for "dungeon crawling".

NV definitely at least from my experience , has a hell of alot more quests and a far more variety in attacking the main quest arch. Im 60 hours in NV, and havent beat it yet. Im sure I could have If I just made a B line for the main quest, but Im trying to knock out as many sidequests as possible.

I happen to like both exploring/dungeon crawling and piles of quests and a dynamic story, and think each game had its strengths and weaknesses in different areas.

Some people simply like one or the other, the problem is people separated in said camps, instead of recognizing each has strengths and weaknesses in different areas say the other one "svcks" because it isnt their cup of tea.

Yes it would be great if NV was a combination of both, the fact of the matter is consumers fail to realize there are constraints on the developer. I am a software dev myself, not with games mind you, but generally we are given a project and people other than developers define the time-line then we design based on the time available to us. There are plenty of times I would love to add more to a product but time doesn't allow for. Obsidian had their vision, which was heavy on story and questing as opposed to adding in a ton of dungeon crawling locations that are simply loot drops with no bearing on the actual story, whereas Fo3 concentrated heavily on adding multiple dungeon crawling locations while not going as in depth with the story as NV did.

Let us include ALL settlements based on whether or not they provide their own content that isn't tied to the main story:

Unmarked quests are italicized, Unmarked collection quests are underlined
DLC quests not included
Quests will be attributed to where they begin

Fallout 3 Settlements w/ quests (not including main story)
1. Andale (Our Little Secret)
2. Big Town (Big Trouble In Big Town)
3. Canterbury Commons (A Superhuman Gambit, Merchant Empire)
4. The Citadel (Collecting Holotags, Gallows Humor)
5. Girdershade (The Nuka-Cola Challenge, Grady's Package, Mississippi Quantum Pie)
6. Little Lamplight (Rescue from Paradise, A Sticky Situation, Fungus Deal, Zip's Nuka Fix)
7. Megaton (The Power of the Atom, The Wasteland Survival Guide, Blood Ties, Walter's Scrap Metal, Treatment, Leo's Drug Habit)
8. Meresti (I Want To Drink Your Blood)
9. Oasis (Oasis)
10. Paradise Falls (Strictly Business, Economics of Violence, Strictly Profitable, The Kid-Kidnapper)
11. Republic Of Dave (Election Day)
12. Rivet City (The Replicated Man, Stealing Independence, A Nice Day for a Right Wedding, Council Seat, Slave Hunt)
13. Temple of the Union (Head of State)
14. Tenpenny Tower (A Manhandled Manservant)
15. Underworld (You Gotta Shoot 'Em In The Head, Hired Help, This Old House)
16. Vault 101 (Trouble On The Homefront)

Some of the unmarked quests didn't have names so I had to make them up

Fallout: New Vegas Settlements w/ quests (not including main story)
1. Aerotech Office Park (Left My Heart, The Coyotes, Caravan Crook)
2. Bitter Springs (No, Not Much, Climb Ev'ry Mountain, Bitter Springs Infirmary Blues, I Forgot to Remember to Forget)
3. Black Mountain (Crazy, Crazy, Crazy)
4. Camp Forlorn Hope (An Ear to the Ground, Medical Mystery, Restoring Hope, Return to Sender, Tags of Our Fallen)
5. Camp McCarran (Dealing with Contreras, I Don't Hurt Anymore, Three-Card Bounty, I Put a Spell on You, There Stands The Grass, Killing Motor-Runner, Fix The Food Processor, Ranger MIA, Poor Meat Never Makes Good Soup)
6. Freeside (Birds of a Feather, Debt Collector, G.I. Blues, Wang Dang Atomic Tango)
7. Goodsprings (Back in the Saddle, By A Campfire On The Trail, Ghost Town Gunfight, Run Goodsprings Run)
8. HELIOS One (That Lucky Old Sun)
9. Jacobstown (Guess Who I Saw Today, Unfriendly Persuasion)
10. Mojave Outpost (Keep Your Eyes on the Prize, Can You Find it in Your Heart?, Heartache by the Number)
11. NCR Sharecropper Farm (Hard Luck Blues)
12. Nellis Air Force Base (Ant Misbehavin', Sunshine Boogie, Volare!, Young Hearts)
13. New Vegas (Bye Bye Love, How Little We Know, The Moon Comes Over The Tower, Classic Inspiration, Talent Pool, Beyond The Beef, Things That Go Boom, King's Gambit, Vault Suits, )
14. North New Vegas (Someone To Watch Over Me)
15. Novac (Come Fly With Me, One for My Baby, Ranger Station Charlie, Midnight Ranch Attacks)
16. Old Mormon Fort (High Times, Medical Supplies)
17. Primm (My Kind Of Town, ED-E My Love)
18. Red Rock Canyon (Oh My Papa, Cry Me A River, Aba Daba Honeymoon, Don't Make A Beggar Of Me)



That isn't even including all the Fallout: New Vegas areas or quests (it took me an hour to come up with just this list). The amount of inhabited locations in New Vegas dwarfs Fallout 3. This argument that Fallout 3 was somehow "bigger" is unsubstantiated at best. Not only are there more locations in Fallout: New Vegas, but there are more quests; the main story, the side-quests, and unmarked quests combined in New Vegas totals out to almost twice that of Fallout 3.

So please, before you go off on a tangent about how Fallout 3 was "bigger" either in size, locations, or content; do your homework first.

Quality over quantity. A majority of New Vegas' side quests were short and required you to run errands, or go to Location A and talk to NPC A, then do the same for Location B and C, then go back to the starting location. Yes, some of the New Vegas quests were fun and unique, but most were boring and I dread having to do them again.

I hate to break it to you (wait, no I don't) but you just described the majority of quests in Fallout 3... And most other objective based games. You go somewhere, you do something, you go back to where you came from. Perhaps you should provide some examples to prove your point?

Apparently you have never played Fallout 3.

As for the OP, did you play through the game, or just play for the first couple hours and rush off to whine? I mean, I guess I must have a different copy of the game, because after a certain point, I'm overwhelmed with choices and situations.

I hate to break it to you but what he and you jus described is every rpg ever made.... if ppl get tired of doing quest, find another type of game cause rpgs arent for u (not specifically u since i kno u love NV). to me FONV is jus like FO3, jus in a different setting (which is not a bad thing at all).

I love both games, and this is a very silly argument.
You people arguing over which one is 'better'?. You're confusing your subjective reactions to each game with objective reality -- there's something you don't like about the game so your ego demands you justify it. And that leads to internet inanity like counting tiles and settlements as if it means anything whatsoever.
Truth is, FO3 succeeded at what it tried to be.
F:NV succeeded at what it tried to be.
They did not try to be the same thing.

Two things that I don't like about New Vegas:

That one "canyon" that blocks 1/4 of the map. I mean seriously, why have that there?

The other is the engine. They used the same engine? Really? I mean, the engine would freeze playing Fallout 3, you think it would be better in New Vegas? Please.

This thread is just proof that you can't please everyone and some people you shouldn't even try.
It sound to me like the OP had decided this game svcks before he even played it.
Whatever I can't get enough. I can't tell you how often I've gone on my own and explored an area not related to a quest I had. Not to mention the quests I do get have been fun and interesting and if you think its lacking then wow just how much do you want? because I seem to replace quests with 3 more I have more stuff to do and I'm already 50 hours in.

Sure FO3 was fun but looking back I think its biggest weakness WAS its map layout. Very little to no settlements with quests sure theres a lot of dungeons to explore but with no direction or purpose I see little point to it. Yay I found more metro tunnels with some awesome LEWT more stuff to dump in my tennpenny suite.
With New Vegas it feels like I'm exploring with a purpose even when I'm NOT doing a quest and the more I think about it that makes all the difference in the world. I don't miss those stupid metro tunnels not even a tiny bit.

I wonder if you factor in the size of interior maps how the "size" comparison looks between the two games, but that's got nought to do with linearity. There is a certain...rigidity to the map though, with that same U-bend of highway having to be trudged over again for a large portion of the game.

lol no it is not my friend... no it is not.

My experience with New Vegas has been entirely different.

After my first play through I found you could breeze through this U-bend relatively quickly, and even in that first play through I spent a far greater amount of time exploring the game world outside of the U-bend, hardly qualifying it as a "large portion" of the game. It is also worth pointing out that in Fallout 3 you spent just as much time starting the game in an area substantially more restrictive and confining than a wide, content dense "U-bend".

I can tell Obsidian touched this game. I think back to KotOR II and how they added random weapon things. I don't like being able to make ammunition and I don't like having a stock pile of shells/casings. The game is fun but not great. Just like Obsidian though.

Ammo subtypes makes me think back to Fallout and Fallout 2 and how they added "random weapon things".

Despite the size-waving (heh), there are some very interesting comparissons here. While FONV takes up more space, it definitely seems smaller. And while there are more choices regarding the main quest, FO3 seems less linear. Interesting how the layout and flow of the game plays tricks on our minds, no?

Really, really, quickly. In fact I cut through rad-scorpion and deathclaw country to go straight to New Vegas after getting out of Doc's office in Goodsprings on my second play-through.

It took some luck but I only died once getting there - and that was due to a glitch (a deathclaw punched me through a wall).

I decided that I wanted to start out in Freeside and do the MQ later.

I agree with you.

The only reason why people think FO3 is less linear is because of the large gap in between the story 'critical point'. You basically just wander off into the wild and lost your goal by the time you wander around the tube due to the way how Bethesda construct the city layout.

In FNV, the distance between settlement is shorter (due to them being more spread) and hence the illusion of smaller. The time spent to travel from one place to another is shorter and the time spent in one place is shorter due to less quest in 1 settlement but more settlement along the way. Your goal to travel to another settlement is only due to pursuing your goal.

The point now is if you really want to compare the work, here :

just imagine:

plz check the pic of FO 3. such as : Megaton, oasis, rivet city, Capitol building, DC ruins, and others.

plz check the pic of NV such as : err...strip ? and what else ? hoover dam ? then ? movaje outpost ? and others caves maybe ?

now you see the difference ? I am not asking the similarities here. but at least the new sequel is no loose to the previous GRAND PROJECT.

even the layout NV already lost count. the game indeed improved alot. but the layout is way behind FO 3.

Essentially there is no argument supporting that New Vegas is linear

Okay....So here are some things we have established from the OP

We established the map is smaller

We've established that the areas aren't as detailed (somewhat subjective)

And we established that the non-main quest areas aren't "as big" (also somewhat subjective)

However, there is nothing indicating that this game is linear. Either the OP has completely misconstrued the definition of linear or I am missing something. Linear to me indicates that I have a set path to follow that I cannot stray from. Yes there is a portion of the map that we are unable to get to, and yes there are portions of the map with invisible areas (ie mountainous ranges typically). Overall however, you are allowed to roam wherever you want. For example I don't have to travel south and go to primm then to Nipton then to Novac. I can go to Sloan or a I can try to go directly to Vegas If I wanted to and have wandered off the path.

New Vegas is NOT linear

Obsidian raised Fallout 3's already high bar. Face it - I can count on one hand the games with this kind of gameplay, (and for PC users) and modding capability. And I'm pretty sure Bethesda's made the others.

New Vegas is in no way a disappointment to me. I kind of wish the corners of the map were a bit fleshed out and accessible, but that's not a game killer for me. Mods'll have that fixed jiffy quick. The new crafting systems kick major ass. That they added in ammo crafting was basically a preemptive strike for Obsidian, 'cause modders would have added it in anyways.

Obsidian did as much as they could have possibly done in two years - and I think they exceeded expectations. To me, it's the culmination of all their hard work, slapped together with Bethesda's A+ RPG formula, and Black Isle's A+ game world.

Neither game is better than the other. Each is a platter of epicness and we're being served a buffet on it. If you don't like it, buzz off and go play Final Fantasy like the rest of the Drones.



I know some Obsidian guys are gonna see this, so I just wanna say that beyond all the jabberjawing people do here, y'all done a bang-up job on Vegas. I sincerely hope to be buying another Obsidian baked Fallout cake soon.

I'll just say one thing. It's funny how some people have an opinion in these forums, whereas it's quite obvious by their posts, that they haven't even bothered to play or explore FO3.

they most certainly dropped the ball with caesars legion. i dont know how people can be so rabid to defend FO:NV and fo3 but the truth is both games have huge shortcomings that are similar, and mostly related to the terrible gamebryo engine. something like a -slightly- accurate population count when you're in a war camp help to add to immersion. you can't even have 10 NPCs onscreen without the terrible terrible engine tripping over itself.

I think the game is linear in that it forces you to go certain ways. One example is the beginning where you're almost forced to go in specific direction (easier enemies, story develops, etc). Another example is the invisible walls that prevent you from flanking enemies (I ran into this a couple of times trying to avoid x, y and/or z that was sitting directly on the only traverseable path). To me it was like the game/devs were saying: in order to get to x you have to kill some boss creature.

I'm not disagreeing with you or challenging your opinion...just to be clear.


Did you play Morrowind?

IMO, Morrowind accomplished exactly what you're saying. So it is possible, IMO.

What I don't understand is how/why Oblivion and Fallout 3 were so pathetic in comparison when it came to good writing/stories/immersion.

I also don't understand why Obsidian would take the openness created in Fallout 3 and turn it into what almost plays like a Bioware game.

Lastly, I don't understand why it seems to be impossible to create a game with the depth of Morrowind and the graphics of Oblivion/Fallouts.


But mods can't improve writing or delete invisible walls can they?

Furthermore, doesn't it seem like...maybe it's Bethesda (I dunno)...the last couple of games have been more platforms for modders? How do I put it...it's like the devs are saying: 'why waste time/energy fully developing a game...just give them the shell and tools and let the players make it the way they want. But still charge full price!'

Because to me, Fallout 3 felt incomplete. Fallout: NV feels like I've been bamboozled: I bought a game thinking it would be an open world and ended up stuck with some Bioware crap.

Basically my point is why does it seem like the last couple of games have to be modded just to enjoy them?

I did, for so many hours that I don't think my 3 post 5 DLC 300+ save can actually tell.

But DC subway was boring, there is only one way, except 2(?) junctions that have one more exit.

Large empty area between Enclave base, Vault 87 and Vault 92 is pretty boring as well.

Tenpenny is just too isolated.

North side is more interesting, with Comms and Armory and Paradise Fall.....except there is only one and a half quest it was involved despite it is the biggest community in northern CW.

DC street is nice.....as long as you stay within the adventure path to Rivet City.

As for Mojave, it is kinda like CW upside down; but instead of countless unoccupied power sub station and radio tower we have small pocket of community. And Heck the U motorway is not empty at all: it have quite a few location and fairly challenging for those who yet to have access to better equipment.

I would have to agree with those saying New Vegas is NOT as linear as Fallout 3. I enjoyed Fallout 3 a lot, but I feel I have a lot more choice in New Vegas overall.