I recall dev interviews saying that the factions had been laid out for Van Buren. I thought the writing was very good, I don't know that I'd call it "major progress."

Really FNV did not seem compelling at all to me until the DLC, which was so good that it made me re-think the original story again. Skyrim is going a bit the other way. The setup and world is so fantastic, but it falls flat in the finish and in a sense of consequence and accomplishment. I won't make a final call until all the Skyrim content is in.

I didn't know that, about the civilian areas. A shame. Caesar is an interesting guy, but there is still no reason to side with them if you're anything but a sadist. If you're just out for power, there's Yes Man, and if you're out to civilize, there's the NCR which is Caesar's vision without the Roman LARPing.

Fortunately, I don't give a crap.

If that's really the case, they missed the cues and still dropped the ball regarding followers. Instead of giving us less followers that we wouldn't use, they decided to give us more of something we won't use, nor go out of our way to protect...and in some cases outright kill ourselves because they are as useless as [censored] on a bull.

New Vegas got followers right, dead on accurate. Give us a story behind them, a history. Everybody's got a history. I seem to remember listening to Raul's story in New Vegas several times just becaus it was such a great story to be told that you wanted to hear it...Who he is/was, Where he came from, and how he came to be in your service. Hopefully Bethesda takes a hint from some of this and next time actually gets it right for a change.

Not going to happen, Fallout 4 will be Beth's prodcution, "Skyrim with guns". But let's hope they'll let Obsidian do another expansion after that.

One game should not be exactly like another and by having things we like in different games, we get to have it all, at different times. I love FNV and the companions are my favorite part. Deeper companion stories with quests in Skyrim would have been nice and not unique. I might have a written a few in if I was doing the writing but I'm not on the team. I'm happy with the Skyrim world being the star of Skryim and having things different is all I'm saying. I don't pit one game against another because they all have things I like and I still play them all. It wouldn't be good if they were all the same.

played new vegas again the other day, skyrim seems so bland now. that is my opinion.

Oh, like the frost troll on a certain trail that you are encouraged to follow very early in the game?

...

I'd forgotten about that

I'd rather have a few unique and detailed followers rather than a [censored]load of repetitive, random and boring followers.

I still prefer Skyrim for it's other aspects. I didn't like FNV's followers (as personalities) that much besides Boone or the ghoul. Sometimes it's better to have a sixy slave you know nothing about fighting for you.

It's sad when a minor character in a side quest for one of the Guild lines has more of a back story than the person you're exploring the world with (referring to Sapphire- a disturbing story, granted, but it's more than any follower has).

And what happened to being able to give orders? Useful ones like "Keep a distance" and "Don't attack". Sure I can tell Lydia to use a lever or a chair, but how about letting me tell her to stay out of my :censored: line of fire? Or STOP BUMPING INTO ME! FNV's Companion Wheel served it's purpose nicely- a quick easy way to give orders on the fly, without having to stop everything and go into conversation mode.

And it's still comparing apples and oranges, which is why the saying exists in the first place. As similar as things can be, if they aren't on the same level, then you aren't making a proper comparison. That's why apples and oranges can't be compared, even as fruits.

This isn't politics where you can spin a phrase into whatever meaning you want to serve your own argument as it conveniences you.

It's pretty elementary to understand that apples and oranges can't truly be compared to each other, because as fruits, they are completely different from each other. The only thing really in common is the fact that they are fruits, but to "compare them as fruits to be compared" is just a rephrasing of the old expression meant to highlight the problem with comparing things that aren't really close to at all being the same.

Football and Baseball are sports, but to qualitatively compare the two is intellectually disingenuous.

But go ahead and impress me with how much you can dance around the point and rephrase things to make it seem like you know what you're talking about instead of just simply stretching your point past the point of absurdity. Because you're the one who already has agreed that you cannot compare apples to oranges, and yet that is exactly what you are doing. A case of the left hand not aware of what the right hand is doing, perhaps?

I guess everyone forgot how empty fallout new vegas was. All of that wonderful follower interaction came at the price of a game world where there was nothing to explore.

After doing all of the quests there's nothing left to do. All of the dungeons are small, cramped, an uninspired. Once you do the loop there's no reason to go back to any of the places you've visited because there's nothing to do there.

I tried to play that game with a high level character that all but finished the main quest line but I found nothing to do. After you've done it once the game world is empty. The only bright spot is that there's a lot of it. Doing all of the quests does fill the time you play.

Too bad nearly every location consists of boarded up filler. Sure there might be a small settlement there but you ain't getting into them buildings to do any prospecting.

I'd rather have a place to explore than having to suffer through another twenty hours of Boon or Cass. I can also do without having to constantly babysit NPCs that are always in the way.

We haven't forgotten. I don't think New Vegas was ever meant as a place to explore endlessly, it is in the middle of the desert after all. I've been to Vegas as well as getting off the beaten path there too,There's not exactly a ton of places to go explore and get lost in...unless you count the burning hot desert itself.

Funny thing about New Vegas and time spent in that world is that I have my longest running character in that game at 227 hours, and I'm not finished with him yet. I never did that with Fallout 3, and haven't done it with Skyrim yet, despite all there is to do. From a role playing perspective new Vegas beats Skyrim by a longshot.

Apples and oranges, sure, but they are both fruit, both are delicious, and well all love them. It's a mater of choice which you prefer.

Yeah, but it is saddening that Skyrim couldnt one-up everything that F:NV did. The world really felt alive in NV and you felt very small in comparison (it does in Skyrim too...but feels more empty). Nothing beats walking into Freeside fending off muggers, or going into that underground fighting ring, or strolling through the Gommorah.

Two totally different games..

Don't forget about Baldur's Gate as well!

FO:3 and Skyrim are good in the sense that open-exploration in quantity over quality is a BGS specialization; and, as a matter of fact, they're arguably the best at this.

NV was good in the sense of detailed character backgrounds and story-telling element as this is an Obsidian (most of the team is comprised of folks who worked at Black Isles Studios); and, as a matter of fact, they're arguably the best at this.

My point is, both games excel and lack in certain departments, most of them being polar opposites in the gaming genre. Playing NV again after Skyrim, most of these are obvious... and playing Skyrim after NV, the same elements NV lacked are also obvious.

New Vegas was more empty, aye. But each named character actually had their own personality. Voice actors were reused to the point of frustration, but at least evey character was somewhat different. Take merchants, for instance. New Vegas is a very different game to Skyrim. It's not about dungeon crawling, and mopping up caves. It's about moulding your own character, picking which factions you like and which you don't, watching the world react to your choices and whatnot. Despite Skyrim having more NPCs in the would, they all feel boring and instantly forgettable. The Mojave feels more lived in and real.

The world of Skyrim is far more beautiful and well crafted than the world of New Vegas ( Fallout 3 also had a much better world. ). I also found New Vegas to have more those annoying, smaller bugs than Skyrim. It also crashed my Xbox 360 numerous times and I suspect had a major role in its death (R.I.P 360 Elite). The enemies were terrible ( Cazador, Deathclaws ), the enemy A.I was terrible, they would just run towards you and do the same attack over and over, most enemies were over powered and were nearly impossible to kill even at the maximum level. The combat was pretty weak ( Skyrim's is not much better though ), you could not use cover properly as the invisible edges around every object meant you would have to make sure your cursor was at least half a metre away from the edge of every object so you shot will not hit the invisible edges of all objects ( The amount of times I killed myself with the rocket launcher... ). However....

New Vegas has a brilliant faction/reputation system. Most quests are well written, with good characters and multiple, skill dependent ways to complete them. Suprisingly, I did not find broken quests and the followers were great, each with their own personality and complex quests that have consequences for both them and you. Despite some overpowered enemies, the level system and loot placement was good and all skills including lockpicking and speechcraft were useful. hardcoe mode was brilliant.

Its a shame most of the positives from New Vegas were not implemented into Skyrim but thats what modders will hopefully fix with the Creation Kit.

Vanilla Skyrim has, in my opinion:
- Greater world
- Better enemies
- Slightly better combat
- Better crafting ( Alchemy, Enchanting, Smithing )

Vanilla New Vegas has:
- Greater quests
- Better levelled world and loot
- Better companions
- hardcoe mode

I did that for Fallout 3. Waited over 9 months and now I shoot myself in the foot. It wasn't worth the wait and I lost all that time playing the game. I should have gotten it right away. Just get the game now. You are not saving any money by waiting. All you are doing is just depriving yourself of playing an awsome game.


I hate to say it, but Skyrim is Fallout 3 with magic. While Fallout 3 was Oblivion with Guns, Skyrim is Fallout with magic and no guns.

Skyrim is still an awsome game though.


I hate to say it, but anything is an improvement over Oblivion. I love Oblivion so I am not mocking it, just saying.

I think Skyrim is A LOT better.

- Personally, I like the theme of Skyrim more. Dragons and medieval kind of stuff is more interesting to me than post apocalyptic stuff. That is just my opinion however.

- I know there are glitches in Skyrim, but I have never experienced glitches as bad as the ones in New Vegas. I had a glitch where I couldn't talk to Victor (the cowboy robot) at the elevator in Lucky 38. I could not manually use the elevator. I tried everything, looked up how to do it online, nothing. Because of this, I could not talk to Mr. House, so the main storyline: broke. I didn't even play New Vegas for that long. I have played Skyrim a lot longer and I have only experienced a fairly minor glitch.

It would take forever to go into everything, but I like Skyrim more. Everybody has their opinions.

The quests in New Vegas had a lot of personality.

But it was very lacking in places to explore. Dungeons were few and far between and mostly just tiny caves or a single building when you did come across one.

Skyrim's exploration value is fantastic. But the quests mostly lack character. I think the key is a need for better storytelling.

No.
They used a few things from Van Buren but they didn't copy paste 40% of it.
Caesar's Legion for example were used from Van Buren but like 90% of what is in New Vegas is completely new.
They used the resources from Fallout 3, sure, but they didn't use Van Buren like they used Fallout 3.
They simply picked a few things they thought would fit and then fleshed them out with completely new writing.

Let's take Hoover Dam for example.
In Van Buren, it was a Trog settlement. It was dry on the bottom, the other side was filled with radiation and lake monsters.
It was in war with BOS who constantly raided it. (Where as in New Vegas the BOS/NCR war in the Mojave was over Helios One, not Hoover Dam.)

So basically, the only thing they took from Van Buren with hoover Dam was this: It works and NCR is in control of it.
Nothing else.

Sums up my experience well. The entire world revolves arodun you, it feels so [censored] fake. In New Vegas all these other character had their own things and reasons for doing them. Skyrim did a lot great, but inctricate storylines and memorable characters get an F! I've seen Kingdoms of Amalur design more interesting characters. The only memorable NPC's for me is Parthurnax, the greybeard leader guy, and the Ulfric.

Yeah, agree %100

Yea fawlout 3:- kicked Nv [censored] har har har...

I've got to say. The followers in New Vegas were my favourite part of New Vegas. I loved exploring with somebody watching my back, I loved learning about their characters, specifically Boone, and most of all their quests; they were all so well thought-out.

Also, stop moaning about posting about New Vegas, so what if it's a Skyrim forum? It doesn't mean we can't ever talk about other games, especially one so similar to Skyrim itself. Just lighten up a bit.