Oblivion deeper than skyrim!? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:26 pm

Well I guess you'll feel right at home when they give you pretty much zero recognition for completing the civil war questline and the MQ line.

You mean like the zero recognition I got from 99% of the populace after supposedly solving the mystery of the Dwemer, or killing off the leader of he fighters guild and taking his place? Yep.

Actually I've had more people comment on me being in the DB, saving Koldak's soul, solving the problems at the College, stopping Alduin, then I ever did for anything in Morrowind.

hey it doesn't matter how you got those skill your character was still trained and thus had the ability to use said skills at levels you'd expect someone in that position to be in. So your argument is still fail. :biggrin:

Because, there is no such requirements in OB or SKyrim.

Having a mechanic that you can get around easily doesn't make the game have more depth, it just makes the game broken.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Just to illustrate that point let's take the first one as an example, since it doesn't appear appropriate to address each Morrowind vs Oblivion point seperately. You say Cyrodiil is generic high fantasy. Well if anything Skyrim is a generic real world northern wilderness. In wandering the lands of Skyrim I see very little that isn't generic. Most of the wildlife is real world (bears, wolves, foxes, walruses, etc) and some prehistoric real world creatures, Mammoths, Saber Tooth Tigers, and generic monsters like Giants, Dragons, enlarged spiders, enlarged crabs. Just a very few holdover unique creatures from Oblivion (Spriggans, wisps). The cities are all generic Norse type towns. So it appears that Skyrim is more"generic" than Oblivion.

So this point doesn't make sense unless viewed from a Morrowind to Oblivion perspective. And the view that Oblivion is not like Morrowind and therefore is so bad everything less must be better than Oblivion.

You misunderstand my point. They retconned Cyrodiil into a generic high fantasy setting; the description of Cyrodiil from the Pocket Guide and Morrowind text was vastly different than the Cyrodiil we got in Oblivion. Skyrim, at least, stayed true to the lore (one of the devs even said they used the Pocket Guide's entry on Skyrim as a basis for designing this game). Why is this so hard to understand?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:04 am

Amen to that. Deeper questlines are always welcome but I'll never define my role-playing experience by numbers. I'd be happy if they kept all stats hidden and leveled perks and skills without giving percentages.

I'd much rather hear "You are an accomplished swordsman" than "you are a level 14 warrior with 57% sword skill."

So you basically don't want to play a rpg. You want an action game. This is exactly what we are talking about when we say dumb down. Stats are important. They are there to show what a character has. People have already written essays on the subject.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Skyrim has a lot more dialogue and variety of just about anything then Skyrim. There's no way Oblivion could be deeper.

Strange the npc repeate the same thing, again and again and again , i prefer when they don't talking.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:06 pm

So you basically don't want to play a rpg. You want an action game. This is exactly what we are talking about when we say dumb down. Stats are important. They are there to show what a character has. People have already written essays on the subject.

So that's the real reason for everyone crying "dumbed down" mantra. It's solely because it's no longer a D&D clone, with number crunching and dice rolls, isn't it?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:48 am

So that's the real reason for everyone crying "dumbed down" mantra. It's solely because it's no longer a D&D clone, with number crunching and dice rolls, isn't it?

LOL - I guess that makes mmo's prime examples of RPG's, eh? Plenty of number crunching there.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:01 am

No it wouldn't. Morrowind's world and landscape is far, far less interesting than Skyrim's. The dungeons simply don't compare. The interface is old and dated.

You can't just change a few aspects of an existing game and say it will be the best game ever.

Hah! Morrowinds landscape was pretty unique. Skyrim is just a version of your run of the mill norse fantasy setting. (Not that it is a bad setting, its a pretty sweet environment -concept wise) Yes, it could have used better dongeons, interface and so on, true enough. But even without such things it would still be a hell of a lot better for those whos narrative field of view goes deeper then your sword-arm. The point is, it was much better for its time and is still better in terms of deapth.

Its just like someone said: The devs over at Bethesda improves some things and makes other things worse, why not just improve the whole thing? Answer: Its possibly they dont really care and makes a game that can attract a larger audience to buy it. If the old fans leave after a while, well they already got our money.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:10 am

Skyrim has a lot more dialogue and variety of just about anything then Skyrim. There's no way Oblivion could be deeper.

Dialogue and variety are not the only things that make a deeper RPG, RPG being the key word.

Yes. MANY DID

This happens with EVERY sequil regardless of quality, there will ALWAYS be people who say it svcks compared to the last one.

The problem is when Oblivion came out people didn't want Oblivion, they wanted Morrowind 2, and when Skyrim came out they didn't want Skyrim, they wanted Oblivion 2, and so on and so on.

You are wrong. I never heard anyone say they wanted Morrowind 2 or Oblivion 2. What people want is a deep RPG that plays like a TES RPG, not things stolen from Fallout 3 put into the TES universe and then RPG attriubtes from TES ripped out by Bethesda because they were too lazy to actually take the time and effort to make them work.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:13 am

So that's the real reason for everyone crying "dumbed down" mantra. It's solely because it's no longer a D&D clone, with number crunching and dice rolls, isn't it?

For some, perhaps. But D&D is a type of role playing game I and other "conneseurs" despise. At least last time I saw it with all its clones, its shallow combat-centric system, kitschy aesthetics and overly zealotry dice fixation has caused lots of damage to the development of the RPG genre.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:01 pm

But why the obsession with stats? We still have skills. How does the loss of attributes really make it "dumbed down?" Is it because there's no big numbers next to your strength and agility scores to stroke your ego? That's not really dumbed down at al....

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:36 am

Oblivion deeper than skyrim!?

I think Skyrim did more for the Nords than Oblivion did for the Cyrodils.
Then again, I suppose the BladeHonorGlory theme was there. Knights of the Nine probably helped too.

That said, I think each were worth my sixty bucks when they came out

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:13 am

What a bunch of fan boys, Arena is obviously the deepest in the series.

RIP The Elder Scrolls: 1994 - 1994

I lol'd

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:54 pm

But why the obsession with stats? We still have skills. How does the loss of attributes really make it "dumbed down?" Is it because there's no big numbers next to your strength and agility scores to stroke your ego? That's not really dumbed down at al....

I dont think its so much about huge stats as it is with having less variables to play around with. Without them, the world gets more conformed and shallow. Should for example Khajits not generally be noticeable faster, acrobatic and more agile? And so on.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:51 pm

I dont think its so much about huge stats as it is with having less variables to play around with. Without them, the world gets more conformed and shallow. Should for example Khajits not generally be noticeable faster, acrobatic and more agile? And so on.

Exactly. Since they removed attributes you no longer have races that have varying differences. When an Wood Elf starts off with the same stamina, health and magica that an Orc and a High Elf does than something is broken.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:20 am

Skyrim is about as deep as any other open world hack & slash game.

Sadly true

Does not stop me from enjoying it though

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Skyrim: The world is so much better, the atmosphere is better
Oblivion: The quests are better, the speech although bad, still has more options, spell making, Guilds are way better
New Vegas: Way deeper quests, Way deeper characters, way deeper location, way deeper gameplay, multiple conflicting factions, Companion backstory and quests, immersive locations, way more speech, meaningful speech, better quality speech

Fallout New Vegas > Oblivion > Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:41 pm

Scenery wise Skyrim blows Oblivion out of the water, some places are like an artwork.. *drools*
But gameplay wise Skyrim is an absolute joke;
- Shallow rpg experience.
- Most of the quest are 'kill in that cavern and retrieve my X item"
- Lack of fun spells, for example, Walk on water, open chest spell.
- Same sentance over and over, noob in the thieves quests keeps insulting me.. You may be the friend of the guildmaster.. blahblah..
- Lack of gear and weapons.
- There are tons of more stuff, but im sure im getting flamed so i keep it at this :tongue:

Im am absolutely disgusted the path Skyrim took, its like an rpg for an 12 year year old...

New vegas is an much better rpg experience.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:49 am

Scenery wise Skyrim blows Oblivion out of the water, some places are like an artwork.. *drools*
But gameplay wise Skyrim is an absolute joke;
- Shallow rpg experience.
- Most of the quest are 'kill in that cavern and retrieve my X item"
- Lack of fun spells, for example, Walk on water, open chest spell.
- Same sentance over and over, noob in the thieves quests keeps insulting me.. You may be the friend of the guildmaster.. blahblah..
- Lack of gear and weapons.
- There are tons of more stuff, but im sure im getting flamed so i keep it at this :tongue:

Im am absolutely disgusted the path Skyrim took, its like an rpg for an 12 year year old...

New vegas is an much better rpg experience.

New Vegas may be a better RPG in some aspects but not a better game then Skyrim and certainly Skyrim's Scaling is a million times better then New Vegas's no level scaling crap that makes it boring at high level or it's open world.

I lol'd

Me too, Skyrim has plenty of RPG elements and more choices at level up then it's Predecessors but you'll never hear the detractors say anything good about Skyrim. They just repeat the same old crap, that the sky is falling and Skyrim is a failure when it clearly isn't.

Dialogue and variety are not the only things that make a deeper RPG, RPG being the key word.

You are wrong. I never heard anyone say they wanted Morrowind 2 or Oblivion 2. What people want is a deep RPG that plays like a TES RPG, not things stolen from Fallout 3 put into the TES universe and then RPG attriubtes from TES ripped out by Bethesda because they were too lazy to actually take the time and effort to make them work.

Stats are important but they are useless if the combat system that the stats are used in svcks.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:22 am

Skyrim not deep?!?. Christ on a bike, there's soo much little details in this game it still blows my mind how they managed to make it in the time frame they had. Made by 100 people? more like 1000.

Just think about the hours in recording all the dialogue spoken in the game and what that alone takes time and effort wise.
I just think some people cant really see or recognise depth in different ways. Many many elements make up the depth of a game. But we all view things differently.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:17 am

- Lack of fun spells, for example, Walk on water, open chest spell.
- Lack of gear and weapons.

I really like some of the magic effects from Shouts like slow time, force push, control animals and speed run. Skyrim probably has as many different spells as Oblivion if you include the shout spells.

I thought the variety of armor and weapons was larger than Oblivion. Skyrim even has 5 types of fur armor, most of the standard sorts we saw in Oblivion, plus a whole load of faction-specific ones like the Forsworn, Blades, Legion (with various types), and so on. You can even find very rare stuff like a full set of Falmer and Ancient Nord armors in specific locations.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:17 pm

Skyrim is about as deep as any other open world hack & slash game.

I was just about to write something similar, thanks for sparing me the time.

Also, Oblivion is deeper and has better writing.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:14 pm

Skyrim: The world is so much better, the atmosphere is better
Oblivion: The quests are better, the speech although bad, still has more options, spell making, Guilds are way better
New Vegas: Way deeper quests, Way deeper characters, way deeper location, way deeper gameplay, multiple conflicting factions, Companion backstory and quests, immersive locations, way more speech, meaningful speech, better quality speech

Fallout New Vegas > Oblivion > Skyrim

I write this as a total pre-launch Skyrim really devoted fan, I loved the game till about December when I realised it lacked depth in in every way except the beautiful hand crafted world.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:33 am

There was still no real explanation how Morrowind is a "better RPG".

In both games you create a character from ground up, you create a custom combination of thief/mage/warrior.
In both games people act [censored]. In both games the world barely changes from your actions.
In both games the quest are about getting item X killing person Y going to place Z.
In both games there are no dialog options, there are no ways to reject quests without starting them first. There are no way to deal with the bandits diplomatically, there's no way you can turn around a quest and have a different conclusion in either game.

This [censored] seem to be about having MOAR OF EVERYTHING, [censored] quality WE WANT QUANTITY, MORE IS BETTER, MORE MEANS MORE CHOICE EVEN IF THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CHOICE.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:05 am

Skyrim: The world is so much better, the atmosphere is better
Oblivion: The quests are better, the speech although bad, still has more options, spell making, Guilds are way better
New Vegas: Way deeper quests, Way deeper characters, way deeper location, way deeper gameplay, multiple conflicting factions, Companion backstory and quests, immersive locations, way more speech, meaningful speech, better quality speech

Fallout New Vegas > Oblivion > Skyrim

I write this as a total pre-launch Skyrim really devoted fan, I loved the game till about December when I realised it lacked depth in in every way except the beautiful hand crafted world.

New vegas wasnt made by Bethesda your argument is invalid.

Also Skyrim's Daedric Quests > Oblivion's IMO.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:00 am

Also Skyrim's Daedric Quests > Oblivion's IMO.

Some of them, yes. Mostly they're just go-there-and-fetch-that or go-threre-and-kill-that type. And in atleast one case, both :lmao: