[Ross]

I'll go find a mod for flying monkeys when you find a mod for reallocating perks and then we can both leave Bethesda alone with our silly ideas.

You do realize that your not really stating facts, just opinions right?

[Robert Jackson]

Everything is opinions, after 6 pages of this, you should know this.

But the argument that just because it does not affect you, it should be put in, makes no sense. If I demand unicorns with AK-47s running around the wilderness, you can chose to use the unicorns. I can chose not to use the respec system, but that doesn't mean it does not affect my gameplay. On top of this, there is also opportunity cost - what could the devs be working on if they didn't have to add in respeccing? And on top of that, the game is an action-RPG. Most of the RPGish features (e.g. strength, intelligence, etc, as well as most meaningful choices - these are RPG basics) have been taken out. Why take out more? It honestly isn't that hard to start a new character if you want to change archetype, and I'm sure no-one is actually badly affected by those 2 or 3 perks that aren't used as well as they could be. It's an easy game - who really cares if you can sneak a little better when you should've been able to cast illusion spells cheaper? It doesn't disadvantage you enough to justify respeccing. If the game was actually hard, I might understand the argument.

[Sian Ennis]

Not to insult or offend. But reading this thread when you said you have been playing the character the whole time and have done everything it was rather misleading. I assumed the char was leader of all the guilds an so forth as well. We had no way of knowing that you would do these other quests and not save.

Perfectly understandable, that's why one should never assume things. When I said "I have done pretty much everything in the game", I never said with the same save, and it was just to demonstrate that I wasn't interested in restarting the game with a whole new character just to reallocate my perks because I'd already done pretty much everything and I don't find doing the same quests and questlines over and over all that fun.

[Chris Duncan]

Coming up with reactions like ''flying monkeys and pink unicorns'' is A very childish, B has nothing to do with the option that is being discussed.
And since I seem to be getting aggro from some of the ''oldschool hardcoe rpg'ers'' on here (skyrim rpg? haha) I'll just leave it at that.
For some strange reason the TES community changed since the release of skyrim, and not for the better.
My first post was not at all rude/ nor offensive to anyone at all, the person who that post was directed to did not take it as a offence either so the whole ''lets play a moderator'' is out of line here.
Respecing has nothing to do with being lazy either, I create multiple characters for multiple roles I'd like to play. Yet I'm still for a respec option, the people who are against it either come up with reasons that don't exist or are just spamming this topic with their flying monkey bullcrap.

[Kahli St Dennis]

Anytime I want to Re-Perk my character, I can. It's called starting a new game.

[Ellie English]

I say yes, I mean it could be done atleast ONCE with all the perks you have if you are leveled enough in certain trees you want.

Say for example I am level 65 in Archery, yet no perks, than say I have two perks in Alchemy, hate it thus want to transfer those perk points (whatever) to Archery, don't see why you couldn't.

[Theodore Walling]

Anytime I want to Re-Perk my character, I can. It's called starting a new game.

That's called starting a new character, not re-perking your character Flame Removed
Fact still remains it's a option which you don't have to use.
I don't like the horses in skyrim, should I create a thread about them being removed? no why should I, I just don't use them.
I'm sure that their are people who DO like the horses and use them 24/7, all the power to them.

[Khamaji Taylor]

I'd probably be counted among the "hardcoe oldschool rpgers" but as far as I'm concerned its too late, wish all you dissenters were around in 2011 when the en mass discussions about simplification and accessibility was a daily excersice, nothing about Skyrim warrants "the lost of its integrity" if peeps were allowed to change up what perks they have, this isn't Skill Reallocation, the skills stay the same, just change up the perks. there's nothing deep, in depth, or emotionally jarring about them. So why the hell not

what sane person would undo 50 hrs of progress for something as arbitrary as changing up perks?

[Mel E]

You can't always avoid wasting perks by planning alone. As I've stated in multiple threads on the subject many perks do not function as described, are worse in practice than they sound on paper, or have such vague descriptions that you're not sure what you're getting. Since we're talking about a feature for consoles, I don't think it's reasonable to expect console users to do an internet search for every perk they select to make sure it's worth taking.

Thats a case to fix and improve perks, not remove the consequences of your choices.

[April]

I am not a fan of perk reallocation. It's next to dragon mounts in the gameplay stuff that I hear everyone wants but makes no sense.

[Eliza Potter]

Wow, this is still going on. In the end there is no good reason to implement this feature. People say they have useless perks, or that they wasted them. Too bad, that's your fault, deal with the consequences of your decisions. Why should Bethesda take time away from the TONS of more important things (bugs/glitches) to implement a feature that not many people would use, and is caused by YOUR mistakes? This topic should not be discussed at this point, because Bethesda has far more important matters to focus on that actually increase the replayability of the game, and make it play better. Respec does neither.

[sas]

And what more important things do you See Bethesda doing? obviously they have the flexibility to provide free minor content in Updates that included Mounted Combat, More kill cams etc etc as well as putting out a Beta for Dawngaurd.

or are peoples memories so fickle.

there is no deep consequence, just annoyance and a change of heart.....which you're allowed to do already with Pseudo-Classes... so explain why Respec is all of a sudden a problem?

[kevin ball]

I've got more hours on Borderlands than all Elder Scrolls games I've played combined, and I can respec to my hearts content in that game, so I don't see how it could hurt replayability or anything else for that matter. Honestly, adding a one time respec option wouldn't be a bad idea.

And before anyone asks what Borderlands has to do with any of this, may I remind you we were on the subject of flying monkeys not long ago.

[Len swann]

I

I've got more hours on Borderlands than all Elder Scrolls games I've played combined, and I can respec to my hearts content in that game, so I don't see how it could hurt replayability or anything else for that matter. Honestly, adding a one time respec option wouldn't be a bad idea.

This is what many have been saying. Im all for perk reallocation, but only under two scenarios
1. People can only reallocate once. This is to give both sides what they want. OCD people don't get to reallocate every level, and the reallocation supporters get what they want
2. If Bethesda does a DLC like Operation Anchorage in FO3 that takes place outside of Skyrim and requires character importation, I have no problem with perk reallocation. Bioware games have pioneered this, in games such as the Awakening expansion for DA:O, the ME series, and Baldur's Gate.

[krystal sowten]

You do realize that your not really stating facts, just opinions right?

Yes, do you?

I'd probably be counted among the "hardcoe oldschool rpgers" but as far as I'm concerned its too late, wish all you dissenters were around in 2011 when the en mass discussions about simplification and accessibility was a daily excersice, nothing about Skyrim warrants "the lost of its integrity" if peeps were allowed to change up what perks they have, this isn't Skill Reallocation, the skills stay the same, just change up the perks. there's nothing deep, in depth, or emotionally jarring about them. So why the hell not

what sane person would undo 50 hrs of progress for something as arbitrary as changing up perks?

I was around under a different name, but it was before 2011. What sane person would play for 50 hours then feel as though their gaming experience was ruined because they thought they'd want to climb the lockpick perk tree then after putting a couple of points into it decided they didn't need those perks? Just forget about it and move on to a different perk tree. It's not that big a deal.

This sounds like what you are saying is, it's not an RPG anymore anyway, so why fight this change? My answer would be, because I'm not ready to give up yet, though the forums definitely show how many non-RPG fans have moved into the TES world and have their own opinions about things. I guess old school RPG fans are greatly outnumbered nowadays around here.

And what more important things do you See Bethesda doing?

Bug fixes. I would love to be able to play the Civil War quest line without it completely hosing my game like it did before.
Followers being able to ride horses.
Adding more quests.

I mean, I could go on, but there are a lot more useful things they could spend their time doing in my opinion.

[Solina971]

Empirical observation: I play on the PC, and as such I can respec to my hearts content. The ability to do so hasn't diminished the quality of my game in the slightest. It isn't any less of an RPG for it than the console versions of the game.

[CHARLODDE]

Empirical observation: I play on the PC, and as such I can respec to my hearts content. The ability to do so hasn't diminished the quality of my game in the slightest. It isn't any less of an RPG for it than the console versions of the game.

You can also give yourself the very best weapons, items, armor, etc using the console at any point in the game, including when you first start. Should we make that a feature as well?

[Kelvin]

You can also give yourself the very best weapons, items, armor, etc using the console at any point in the game, including when you first start. Should we make that a feature as well?

Quite frankly, I don't actually care whether a repec option became a feature at all. I was merely pointing out that, contrary to assertions by the RPG purists, that the PC version's greater flexibility doesn't diminish the quality of the game in the slightest. In fact, it enhances it.

But since you asked, I absolutely do think that the console versions of the game would benefit from the PC level of flexibility and mod support that makes such things as doing a perk respec possible on that platform.

[Katie Samuel]

Quite frankly, I don't actually care whether a repec option became a feature at all. I was merely pointing out that, contrary to assertions by the RPG purists, that the PC version's greater flexibility doesn't diminish the quality of the game in the slightest. In fact, it enhances it.

But since you asked, I absolutely do think that the console versions of the game would benefit from the PC level of flexibility and mod support that makes such things as doing a perk respec possible on that platform.

I don't have a problem with them having what the PC's have either, but the console isn't really there to be used to cheat. It's there to help out with bugs, to test mods, etc. Reallocation of perks is not a feature on PC.

[Stephani Silva]

Nonsense. No matter what you do in this game, you end up OP anyways in nearly every circumstance unless you are deliberately attempting to make a character that is entirely suboptimal or borderline unplayable, and even that is very difficult to do.

It's not a matter of preventing people from becoming OP, it is only a matter of time before someone becomes OP regardless unless they take steps to purposefully limit themselves via frivolous self imposed restrictions. There is nothing challenging about this game, there is no true player agency or consequences, you are arguing for the preservation of something that simply is not there to begin with.

Nearly every game coming out that has any form of level and ability based progression has some form of skill reset as a form of money sink, even the terrible Kingdom of Amalur had it.

Exactly... Many RPGs have the option to respec, and sadly some of them felt more like an RPG then Skyrim currently does.

Coming up with reactions like ''flying monkeys and pink unicorns'' is A very childish, B has nothing to do with the option that is being discussed.
And since I seem to be getting aggro from some of the ''oldschool hardcoe rpg'ers'' on here (skyrim rpg? haha) I'll just leave it at that.
For some strange reason the TES community changed since the release of skyrim, and not for the better.
My first post was not at all rude/ nor offensive to anyone at all, the person who that post was directed to did not take it as a offence either so the whole ''lets play a moderator'' is out of line here.
Respecing has nothing to do with being lazy either, I create multiple characters for multiple roles I'd like to play. Yet I'm still for a respec option, the people who are against it either come up with reasons that don't exist or are just spamming this topic with their flying monkey bullcrap.

Pretty much, time to repost this.

DO NOT refer to other players as "butthurt"
DO NOT refer to other players as "lazy"
DO NOT tell other players to go away and play something else
DO not be dismissive, snarky, sarcastic or otherwise rude towards people who disagree with your methods of playing video games.

Stay logical and stay within an advlt mindset, seeing such replies like this are pretty... Childish.



Anywho, as another user said in this thread and is also a very good example of why perk reallocation would be a good thing is this: Daggers, many people think they are under the One-Handed perk tree when they are actually under Archery... Yeah.......
Also for people talking about it being 'abused', my answer still follows, this is not an MMO, this is a single player RPG game, their choice of respecing their perks does not effect your game.
As some others said though about locking certain perk trees, and i actually wouldn't mind this, they should lock out Enchanting/Smithing/Speech/Alchemy ^^ that way you can't just go ahead and make your end game armor/weapons then remove all points from Enchanting, Smith the best armor/weapons then remove all the points, invest in shops then take all the points back and make a vast stock of potions and remove the points.

P.S: Don't forget you will not be respecing your Health, Magicka and Stamina... You can't go from being a pure Mage to a Warrior.

[Ashley Tamen]

Again, i've made this point in the other thread. The people who have misplaced perks say they have only misplaced 3 perks. Since you have 80 perks, you have plenty of room for error and mistakes. In fact, i'd say you have 10-20 perks that can be misplaced. Part of an RPG is that you have to learn through trial and error what works and what doesn't.

[W E I R D]

Part of an RPG is that you have to learn through trial and error what works and what doesn't.

So what would be wrong with ~trial~ having chosen said perks which later turn out to either:
A ) Be bugged like the Atronach which has still yet to be fixed and doesn't look like it will ever be fixed.
B ) Cause save file bloating, aka Ash Piles from Disintegration.
C ) Are vague in description or misleading, like perks that increase weapon damage, when all it does is increase base damage before upgrading it with Smithing, also crit multipliers effecting base weapon damage and not upgraded damage.
And correcting said ~errors~ through the means of point reallocation. Why should the player have to deal with it and start a new game after growing an attachment to their character which they have invested alot of time into, just because of bugs/errors that were not their fault? Why not respec? But like i said in the post above, i agree that certain perk trees should be locked, but even then i would not care one bit if they did not lock them, after all it is my choice if i do that or not and it only effects my game.

[Nick Pryce]

I don't really care for it. It would be nice, though. Sometimes going through the same dungeons every time you make a new character get's a bit boring and recessive. It still doesn't stop me from making a new character with a new story, though.

I honestly don't care what other people do. If they want to reallocate their perks, I say go ahead and let them. It's just like console commands or the old smithing glitch. It's your choice, not mine. If you want to "cheat" I don't really care because it doesn't effect me.

That's why all the backlash is nonsense to me. YOU don't have to reallocate your perks, so what should you care?

[Adrian Morales]

Cheating should never be a regular part of gameplay and thats what respec is cheating. Exploits and cheats are fine when they're labeled as exploits and cheats but they shouldn't be a regular part of the game. Should we have an NPC who lets you reset quests, resurrect NPC's, change your race and gender. In Skyrim you can have up to 80 perks. Which is enough to waste a good twenty or thirty. And you can always save your game before taking a perk to see if you like it.

Given how the game is programmed respec isn't even feasible. The game doesn't know your most recent perks, it doesn't know what order you took things in. They can't even make mods on the PC that offer a true respec. I don't think its possible in the programing. Activating the console window for PS3/360 would probably be easier then adding a respec option. The new trees in Dawnguard would probably make adding a respec even more complicated as those perks are earned rather then spent.

They never did respec in Fallout 3 or in New Vegas you had to live with your perk choices forever. Why would they change that for Skyrim?

[Luis Reyma]

So what would be wrong with ~trial~ having chosen said perks which later turn out to either:
A ) Be bugged like the Atronach which has still yet to be fixed and doesn't look like it will ever be fixed.
B ) Cause save file bloating, aka Ash Piles from Disintegration.
C ) Are vague in description or misleading, like perks that increase weapon damage, when all it does is increase base damage before upgrading it with Smithing.
And correcting said ~errors~ through the means of point reallocation. Why should the player have to deal with something and start a new game after growing an attachment to their character in which they have invested alot of time into, just because of bugs/errors that were not their fault?

Because starting a new character is part of an RPG. You see what you missed when you choose what you did. I've started countless new characters in DA: O, ME, and Skyrim, and I can say a new character is often a refreshing change of pace.
1) People should know whether a perk is bugged or not. Finding out it only a quick Google search away
2) Everyone has large amounts of saves anyway, because of the numerous bugs not including perks
3) If a perk if vague, again, they should know. Google is a fantastic tool for an RPG player.
Lastly, I've had a great attachment to many characters. But starting a new game doesn't mean that character goes away. And AS IVE STATED PREVIOUSLY, you can misplace way more than a few perks, up to 10 or 20.