[Elea Rossi]

Original thread: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1385575-why-perk-reallocation-will-never-happen-and-why-it-makes-zero-sense-at-all/

It feels like a 50:50 from what i have read in the previous thread, many do not want it because they feel it will ruin the remaining RPG aspects and immersion of the game, or it will ruin replay value, or use the argument that you can't be a master of multiple things in real life, so doing the same in a game would break it's realism, or it would ruin character archetypes, and there's 'they should be spending their time on more important things' and my favourite one, 'it's a choice you made so you just have to stick with it, just start a new game'.

My arguments and opinions about the above are:

1) It's a single player RPG, so if someone else wants to respec their perks how would it harm your experience? If you do not want to respec, then don't.

2) For the replay value issue and for those saying it will ruin it or destroy it, it won’t be ruining your replay value, but the person who chooses to respec, and even then i find if you have explored the majority of Skyrim on one character and done 80% of the quests the replay value for the game takes quite a dive, the more you restart the more it kills immersiveness, especially when you see the same events, hear the same npcs and have the same supposed 'radiant' quests appear every time in the same places.

3) For the realism argument? The moment you try to bring realism into a Fantasy RPG is the moment you lose credibility, there is nothing realistic about a Fantasy video game where you can use magic, run 24/7, never need to eat, be surrounded by fantastical creatures, not die from being out in the frozen cold 24/7, never needing to drink or use the washroom, not die from swimming in frozen waters, be able to carry 400-700+ lbs., interact with Gods..... Well you get the picture.

4) Character archetypes, see 1)

5) They already do that, but at the same time implement new systems into the game, look at horse combat, so i don't really see that as a valid argument.

6) Quite a few, myself included, have planned out our perks to a T, but due to bugs and glitches in game *Ash Piles, certain perks not working; Deflect Arrow is an example, and the Atronach perk absorbing 30% of certain spells you try to cast, and some of your shouts*, vagueness of said perk(s) and the Necromage perk not effecting other perks if you took them before you got Necromage and more, It would be nice to have the option to respec without having to lose tons of hours on our most beloved character(s).

It would just be another option there if you want to use it, just like Fast Travel, and, if introduced in the form of DLC, could include a fun story along with it, include something to spend Septims on *which Skyrim lacks*, could produce multiple new quests, potentially revive old dungeons you have previously explored and many more ideas.

So people, would you like to have the option to respec? And if not, why not? Granted it's in the same category as Fast Travel back when Oblivion was released...

It's a choice, an option; you don't have to use it if you don't want too.


P.S: No responses like "i don't like it because it's for lazy people" or "it will affect my game because i didn't want it in" without explaining why and how it will affect it, or any answers with the tone of "I don't want it, so no one should have it" even though it is your choice weather you use it or not. If you’re not going to respond in a sensible logical manner and not explain why you do not want it, don't reply at all.

DO NOT refer to other players as "butthurt"
DO NOT refer to other players as "lazy"
DO NOT tell other players to go away and play something else
DO not be dismissive, snarky, sarcastic or otherwise rude towards people who disagree with your methods of playing video games.

I look forward to reading your thoughts and opinions on this

[Quick Draw]

Copied from other thread:

If it is added, it needs to be a very difficult and inconvenient thing in my opinion. As an idea:

The ability to remove perks is limited to one single npc in the game, in a location that cannot be fast traveled to, or waited at. This npc does dangerous tampering with your soul and memories.

It must cost vast sums of money and some form of rare material component, along with unspent dragon souls, say maybe 15 of them at a time.

Limited to removing and allowing reallocation of no more than 3 perks at a time.

Put some sort of debilitation on the player for a time, like reducing health, stamina, and magicka by 1/3, reducing armor and weapon damage by 30%, reducing effective values of all skills by 25%, and reducing all incoming healing effects by 60% for an in-game month.

Make the debilitation stack, so that you are discouraged from doing it without waiting out the existing effects.

[trisha punch]

I think you should be able to. Its one of those things where if you don't like it you don't use it.

[SaVino GοΜ]

Why in heavens name would respeccing be a bad thing when it comes to the RPG Element?
It's a bloody OPTION people, something that is there but you don't have to use if you do not want to.
What's the problem here?

[April]

Agreed, I'd love this option. Especially now I'm hitting the level 50 mark, I'm regretting a few perks, haha.

[Siidney]

You won't convince those against it to be for, and you won't convince those for to be against. It's a silly notion in my own opinion. Where does the line get drawn? Respecing on kills you've made, many would like that. This argument of "it's a single player game" is fine.. but really. This just seems like a silly idea. I wouldn't think the devs would want to make their game so easy to just redo things you've done. Call it what you will, bottom line is that's what it is. A way to redo your choices, something I can't see a game developer wanting in their game.

[Ownie Zuliana]

Copied from other thread:

If it is added, it needs to be a very difficult and inconvenient thing in my opinion. As an idea:

1) The ability to remove perks is limited to one single npc in the game, in a location that cannot be fast traveled to, or waited at. This npc does dangerous tampering with your soul and memories.

2) It must cost vast sums of money and some form of rare material component, along with unspent dragon souls, say maybe 15 of them at a time.

3) Limited to removing and allowing reallocation of no more than 3 perks at a time.

4) Put some sort of debilitation on the player for a time, like reducing health, stamina, and magicka by 1/3, reducing armor and weapon damage by 30%, reducing effective values of all skills by 25%, and reducing all incoming healing effects by 60% for an in-game month.

Make the debilitation stack, so that you are discouraged from doing it without waiting out the existing effects.

Aaah yes, i wanted to reply to this but the post limit, glad you reposted it!

1) Agreed

2) Also agreed, but 15 souls seems quite a vast amount imo, an idea of mine is that with every perk point gained back it should cost more Septims and maybe with each perk point gained back it costs more souls.

3) Seems ok, a version i thought of was disable assinging perks for a period of time.

4) Seems a little too extreme imo, maybe impliment something where the new perks you assigned do not take effect until a certain amount of time has passed. Having side effects stack seems like a good idea though.

[Bird]

I wouldnt necessarily use it but I dont see a problem with it in a single player game.

[Stay-C]

You won't convince those against it to be for, and you won't convince those for to be against. It's a silly notion in my own opinion. Where does the line get drawn? Respecing on kills you've made, many would like that. This argument of "it's a single player game" is fine.. but really. This just seems like a silly idea. I wouldn't think the devs would want to make their game so easy to just redo things you've done. Call it what you will, bottom line is that's what it is. A way to redo your choices, something I can't see a game developer wanting in their game.

Now that would be something silly to impliment

If they did not want you to redo your choices and didn't want something like that in their game, then the commands to remove perks and assign perks would not be included in command console

[Horse gal smithe]

You won't convince those against it to be for, and you won't convince those for to be against. It's a silly notion in my own opinion. Where does the line get drawn? Respecing on kills you've made, many would like that. This argument of "it's a single player game" is fine.. but really. This just seems like a silly idea. I wouldn't think the devs would want to make their game so easy to just redo things you've done. Call it what you will, bottom line is that's what it is. A way to redo your choices, something I can't see a game developer wanting in their game.

Lot's of other rpg's do it and they don't sell any less trust me.
Blizzard, Bioware, honestly what's hurting you guys so much? Just the thought of ''being able to'' bothers you that much?

[Ruben Bernal]

Aaah yes, i wanted to reply to this but the post limit, glad you reposted it!

1) Agreed

2) Also agreed, but 15 souls seems quite a vast amount imo, an idea of mine is that with every perk point gained back it should cost more Septims and maybe with each perk point gained back it costs more souls.

3) Seems ok, a version i thought of was disable assinging perks for a period of time.

4) Seems a little too extreme imo, maybe impliment something where the new perks you assigned do not take effect until a certain amount of time has passed. Having side effects stack seems like a good idea though.

I also had a much more lax version I posted way back, but I feel harsher stipulations are better in this case to work as both a money/excess resource sink, and service with penalties.

Originally I was thinking of something like requiring the player to reach level 81, and every level up after 81 (would not visually or mechanically change the level) giving 0 magicka, stamina, and health, and simply allowing the player to swap perks or do nothing else.

[Damien Mulvenna]

It's a slippery slope. How many other game mechanics should be options then? If you start making everything a toggle option, you start stripping the game world of impact and consequences. There has to be a balance of options and world rules in order for the game to have some challenge to it.

[JERMAINE VIDAURRI]

It's a slippery slope. How many other game mechanics should be options then? If you start making everything a toggle option, you start stripping the game world of impact and consequences. There has to be a balance of options and world rules in order for the game to have some challenge to it.

I agree in theory, but the game already lacks any challenge or real consequences regardless. It simply is nothing more than the possibility of re-arranging poor or misleading perk allocations, instead of having to re-make a character to go through the exact same varieties of pre-generated, randomized content, which offers neither challenge nor difficulty, so much as tedium in my opinion.

[Arrogant SId]

Skyrim needs a money sink (aside from the one time investments) so make respecing cost alot and let it increase with every respec.

[bonita mathews]

If they did not want you to redo your choices and didn't want something like that in their game, then the commands to remove perks and assign perks would not be included in command console

That argument is as silly as the idea of respeccing. I can turn god mode on with the console, should that be in the game too?

Just the thought of ''being able to'' bothers you that much?

Yes, actually, it does. Respecing is just a strange notion and it's beyond me why it should be included in the game. Bethesda wanted players to experience new skills and playstyles via starting a new game, not by respecing.


Why do you people want this option, out of curiosity?

[Nitol Ahmed]

It's a slippery slope. How many other game mechanics should be options then? If you start making everything a toggle option, you start stripping the game world of impact and consequences. There has to be a balance of options and world rules in order for the game to have some challenge to it.

Agreed, but it still falls down to the player and if they wish to use said options, fast travel is an example of this as well as disabling the compass. I agree that too many options can be a bad thing though, but only options that do not offer anything positive along with them, if they implimented said respec npc it would incorperate quests/money sink/revive already explored dungeons/new stories and so on. But adding options like

Respecing on kills you've made

would be crossing the line, if not leaping over it.

[Alex Vincent]

Why do you people want this option, out of curiosity?

Because I only have one character, I've played as him for more than three hundred hours, I've done pretty much everything in the game and I have no interest in replaying the game whatsoever. I do radiant quests and re-run my favourite dungeons once in a while for the fun of it while I wait for DLC, but it really bothers me that I wasted quite a few perk points on perks that are really bad and I never use. I'd like to correct that if Bethesda adds a respec.

If you don't understand how someone can get attached to their character and doesn't want to restart over and over then obviously we're on completely different wavelengths. Obviously I am for a respec option.

[Alba Casas]

I also had a much more lax version I posted way back, but I feel harsher stipulations are better in this case to work as both a money/excess resource sink, and service with penalties.

Originally I was thinking of something like requiring the player to reach level 81, and every level up after 81 (would not visually or mechanically change the level) giving 0 magicka, stamina, and health, and simply allowing the player to swap perks or do nothing else.

Agreed ^^

I agree in theory, but the game already lacks any challenge or real consequences regardless. It simply is nothing more than the possibility of re-arranging poor or misleading perk allocations, instead of having to re-make a character to go through the exact same varieties of pre-generated, randomized content, which offers neither challenge nor difficulty, so much as tedium in my opinion.

Exactly, Skyrims lack of challange or consequences really disappointed me even limiting perks, skills and playing an armorless mage on master is still really easy

Lot's of other rpg's do it and they don't sell any less trust me.
Blizzard, Bioware, honestly what's hurting you guys so much? Just the thought of ''being able to'' bothers you that much?

That argument is as silly as the idea of respeccing. I can turn god mode on with the console, should that be in the game too?

Yes, actually, it does. Respecing is just a strange notion and it's beyond me why it should be included in the game. Bethesda wanted players to experience new skills and playstyles via starting a new game, not by respecing.

Why do you people want this option, out of curiosity?

DO not be dismissive, snarky, sarcastic or otherwise rude towards people who disagree with your methods of playing video games.

^ both of you,

Mech, Raist11 was taking about how he feels devs would not want such a thing to be in the game yet it already is in the game. Also yes, you can achieve god mode on the consoles, it's called turning the difficulty down to Novice hehe. *but it is also possible to have TGM on the consoles too*

[sas]

I'm still a fan of the idea of the One-Time-Only Perk Reallocation. Only one for if you need it or want it. It's non-intrusive.


If people choose to make themselves stinking rich and decked out in stuff made from the crafting skills, and then reallocating to something else, you know, that's their business. Doesn't interfere in the slightest how I play.

[Susan Elizabeth]

If you don't understand how someone can get attached to their character and doesn't want to restart over and over then obviously we're on completely different wavelengths. Obviously I am for a respec option.

I get attached to my character, but I don't have "master of everything" characters. My character is a warrior, he stays a warrior. If I want to be a thief, I start a new character. If you don't understand why someone would not want to do all of the game's content on a single character then obviously we're on completely different wavelengths.

^ both of you,

Mech, Raist11 was taking about how he feels devs would not want such a thing to be in the game yet it already is in the game.

First, I didn't think my post was offensive or insultive. And if it was, then it's very tame compared to the stuff I've seen on these forums. That was not my intention. But at the same time, how can I argue for or against respecing without being dismissive? Second, when did I ever reply to Raist11?

[Robyn Lena]

I get attached to my character, but I don't have "master of everything" characters. My character is a warrior, he stays a warrior. If I want to be a thief, I start a new character. If you don't understand why someone would not want to do all of the game's content on a single character then obviously we're on completely different wavelengths.

When did I say my character is a master of everything? My character is a mage. And I never said I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to go through all of the content in the game on one playthrough. Way to nitpick a post for no reason other than a rebuttal, you wanted to know why someone would want to respec, I told you.

[Marie Maillos]

I get attached to my character, but I don't have "master of everything" characters. My character is a warrior, he stays a warrior. If I want to be a thief, I start a new character. If you don't understand why someone would not want to do all of the game's content on a single character then obviously we're on completely different wavelengths.

That's the thing though, see if you at first were a Mage and pumped your stats into Magicka, then later on decided you did not like it and wanted to be a Warrior, you will be greatly hindered because you will have low Health and Stamina, and your current skill levels for said Warrior perks would be quite low, and if you were say lv30+ and tried to kill something with a 1H sword at a skill level of 30 or so, you would be mince meat that would be a reason to make a new character, also don't forget racial starting bonuses and racial powers as well~

[vanuza]

When did I say my character is a master of everything? My character is a mage. And I never said I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to go through all of the content in the game on one playthrough. Way to nitpick a post for no reason other than a rebuttal, you wanted to know why someone would want to respec, I told you.

I was going off of this:

Because I only have one character, I've played as him for more than three hundred hours, I've done pretty much everything in the game

Experiencing ALL of the game's content with a single character. Yes, I did assume that meant you were a master of everything. I guess you aren't, as you now say (at the same time though, if your character has done everything aren't they essentially the head of every single guild? Sounds like a master of all things to me). What I mean to say is, if my character is a warrior, he's not going to be experiencing Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, or Winterhold content. Because he's a warrior. If I want to do Winterhold quests, I'll start a new character and have him be a mage. That's my logic behind this.

And honestly, I DON'T understand why someone would want to do all of the game's content on a single character. It really is beyond me. And for that reason, I honestly can't agree with your argument for respecing because I don't understand it myself.

But yes, thank you for telling me why you want to respec. But is your argument any better than mine, or mine any better than yours? I don't see a conclusion to this, ever.

[JESSE]

Since it's a single player game as you like to point out, and you don't have to use options you don't want to, here are a few ideas I would like to see implemented...

1) Mountable flying monkeys.
2) The ability to smith a pink unicorn.
3) The ability to poop.
4) Beastiality.
5) Option to have your followers give you a piggyback rides instead of using horses since they can also carry things.

I have more, but I don't want overwhelm anyone. Of course as you have said, since it's a single player game, these new features shouldn't bother anyone since they don't have to use them in their game.

[P PoLlo]

Now that would be something silly to impliment

If they did not want you to redo your choices and didn't want something like that in their game, then the commands to remove perks and assign perks would not be included in command console

I will agree that many use console commands to their advantage. But I disagree that console commands are there for the player's advantage. They are only included in the PC version.

And yup, a silly thing to implement.. but I'd bet we could find some people who have lost or killed people that they later needed and wish they could have a do-over.