Like others have said, this is nothing new. You could be the best warrior, mage, and thief in Morrowind and Oblivion too. Sounds to me like you're just looking for a different game entirely. I think Bethesda hit the nail on the head. Like someone else said, perks force you into more specialization then end-game Morrowind or Oblivion ever did.

This is a valid point which I think I wasn't think of before. It is important to think about roleplayers and non-roleplayers in a series (TES) that has such a huge fan base. Some type of compromise system where things can be done "under the hood" or can be done manually I think could be interesting. Obviously it might be tricky to get the balance right so that someone who just wants to play the game and not worry about details of role playing or stats wouldn't be gimped in any way (and same for a stat heavy roleplayer). Hmmm...

Maybe I am =/

Any suggestions?

Why do people hate that they start off with magic in the game I mean they did that in Oblivion no matter what race or class you pick you still got starter spells.

Yes, we probably play RPG's differently but we can't all be the same. I just don't like that "box" as I always end up in a style of my own even though I'm a 'warrior' or a 'mage'. And to me it doesn't provide "guidance" but more of a hindrance.

Stats does not make an RPG. Check out Diablo to see what I mean. Nor are stats integral to an RPG; they are merely a means to an end. There are even a number of freeform tabletop RPGs where both dices and rules have been done away with to facilitate storytelling and roleplaying.

Huh? You actually want to grind to an insane degree to get all skills to 100? You, sir, have a lot more self control than me.

Indeed.

I disagree on that one. A central part of any RPG is the ability to chose your role and your path. In Tetris or Duke Nukem your role is predetermined.

Each to their own I liked the notion of starting out with a skill package, but I did not like that minor/major skills leveled faster than regular skills, pushing me into a particular profession.

My non-magical characters in Skyrim used magic sparringly. Not because of some self imposed rule, but because it just did not fit with the flow of that character.

This isn't Oblivion or Morrowind or any other game, it's Skyrim. They got rid of a lot of things from previous games, I think they should've gotten rid of the forced magic ability as well.

Please don't mistake Diablo for an RPG =/. Stats don't make a game, no, they are part a making a character, which is what this is about. And if used correctly, they don't just become a means to an end. TES never had stats tied into the development of a character, imo, they were just another thing to boost when leveling up.

And no, I've never even hit 100 in a single skill, but that's where I'd end up if I played to the limits of the game. I get the whole self restraint bit, but that's not the point. I see so many threads where people have abused the game options to a point where the game is meaningless to them, and that's saying something for an epic game like Skyrim. I think it's a shame, and that more detail in your character would make you feel more intimate with it and spur you on.

Being able to cast spells as a Nord Warrior is different from past games how?

If you don't want to cast spells, don't cast spells, but I don't want the game putting in arbitrary restrictions that say if I use this skill, I also can't have that skill.

Character creation in Skyrim is at its all time best.

No. No it's not.

I'm one of those people who are bummed about the stats being gone. Any good RPG will give you a damage bonus based on your strength, and magic bonus based on your intelligence, a sneak bonus based on your dexterity etc., etc., but all that is gone. We essentially all start as the same person, apart from looks, and will eventually end up as the same person with 100 in everything. That's a pretty dire and depressing outlook for any true role player

^^^
Wow you couldn't be more wrong.

Ending up as the same person with 100 in everything is what Morrowind and Oblivion are guilty of.

Skyrim has perks, which is where the true character diversity and specialization comes from, and a limited amount of perks means you cannot possibly master everything, thus creating different and unique characters, effectively giving you -more- to think about, and giving you -more- choice, since each skill has multiple paths of specialization to define your character with.

Then we agree

Isn't that mostly due to crafting?

It would. Just for the record ... I would have liked to chose a few skill specializations to start out with (e.g. +10 in two or three skills), and I like your idea of allowing the player to chose a few starting perks, similar to New Vegas.

I agree.

And why are people so upset about not getting a tag skill?

You get a level up before you even leave the tutorial. Meaning you can "tag" a skill via perk selection before you're even do e with the tutorial.

Incorrect.

Perks that make Heavy Armor Weightless make the decision to pick Heavy Armor over Light Armor meaningless.

Except that it requires -more- work to make Heavy Armor weightless than it does for Light Armor, and requires more of a perk investment than with Light Armor, as well as all the gametime spent when Heavy Armor isn't weightless as opposed to Light Armor being lighter not just in destination but during the journey as well.

If you're going to claim that im "incorrect", you better know what you're talking about. And you obviously don't.

Sigh, because I'd like to decide even before beginning the game some part of what the character is
If my background is they begin as a mage or a a warrior thats going to affect how they behave in the tutorial, ideally it should affect the abilities they have in the tutorial also

edit: I've never managed to get a level up during the tutorial

Optional gimping would be fun. Playing a character that's blind in one eye, or has a limp, or Turet's syndrome would be kickin'.

The fact that you can make Heavy Armor completely weightless still completely negates the disadvantages of having Heavy Armor.

Which was the point.

You're still incorrect.

Yeah, some of us don't like the idea of a blank canvas start. In real life, are all babies exactly the same? NO, of course not! It's called genetics, and it means from the very start people will have different strengths and weaknesses. THIS is what I would prefer, some sort of uniqueness between characters right from the start besides simple cosmetics, and F: NV did this excellently with the perk system. Skyrim's "perk" system does not flesh out your character in the slightest. Some of us don't want "20% more damage with one handed weapons" to define our characters.

And besides, why would I have equal ability in all the skills at the start anyways? Isn't my character like... at least 25 years old? You'd have thought by then I'd be at least more proficient in one skill opposed to another even at the start of the game. I mean, I did have a life before I was captured by those Imperials.

Sigh, because I'd like to decide even before beginning the game some part of what the character is
If my background is they begin as a mage or a a warrior thats going to affect how they behave in the tutorial, ideally it should affect the abilities they have in the tutorial also

edit: I've never managed to get a level up during the tutorial

^^^

You do realize that no matter how many "tags" you get, you're still level 1 and relatively incapable?

So tagging your skill before or after the tutorial is rather meaningless.

Also - I get level 2 everytime thru the starter dungeon.

The fact that you can make Heavy Armor completely weightless still completely negates the disadvantages of having Heavy Armor.

Which was the point.

You're still incorrect.

^^^

The work and investment you have to put I , and the effects it has on gameplay, make it a meaningful choice

You start with different skill levels based on your race.

They should implement a hybrid approach. Go back to Primary, Major, Minor skills. Depending on which you pick determines the effectiveness modifiers. For example, If you picked One-Hand as your Primary, Armsman 5/5 would apply to it automatically, however as a Major it might be 4/5, and Minor may be 2/5. Armsman and the Perks like it would be replaced by ones that grant you Special Attacks, Abilities, or Spells that would then help specialize your character. Some players do not know what to pick from the start, that is why at benchmark levels you offer a quest (difficult) and rewarding one that allows you to reallocate your Skill points. After the tutorial (or intro) you would also be able to do this freely (so players can make a save after and not have to repeat it).

This seems to be the best compromise as you get more interesting Perk selections and from day 1 know what class/custom class you have created (and can even name it like Daggerfall) and it will play and function like you are that class. I am not a fan of how everyone starts as the same exact class. You do not even get a sense of your character until the 20s, and by that time generally the game gets incredibly easy and loses most of its spark.

Except it doesn't. Especially since you can simply grind out Heavy Armor by letting Mudcrabs hit you all day.

Heavy Armor should never be as light as Light Armor. It doesn't matter the work that goes in to it to do it, by completely negating the disadvantage of the more powerful armor you remove the importance of the choice between the armors.

If I can make a dagger do as much damage as an ax, but the dagger also swings faster, why am I ever going to choose an ax?