Ehh Plasma and Flame can hurt Mythical critters, not much else though

Not like I have ever seen the legion use either
:flamethrower: :bolt:

Sorry my comment was slightly passive agressive and for that i apologise.

I understand the tactics behind it. Caesars men use guerilla tactics while imperials have suprior military training. Although nam proves that suprior training doesn't mean a win.

It's ok. I'm just a little frustrated with that argument I guess.

Regarding training though. In Vietnam, the Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian guerrilla soldiers did have better training than US soldiers because they were trained in battle. The communist forces had superior technology too in regards to the infamous AK-47 and logistics systems they had in place. The US had a crude first-generation M16 that was fully automatic and had abysmal reliability meaning that soldiers fired inordinate amounts of ammunition without hitting their targets and were required to constantly clean their weapons.

The communists had superior training, tactics, logistics, and armament. We give the opposing force in the Vietnam conflict too little credit.




Give me a map and I'll lay out perfect ambush points for you. Years of studying tactics in warfare will certainly allow me to provide you with a defensible position or two.



The technology argument doesn't apply to the NCR and Legion's war because they're largely on the same level. Have you noticed the weapons that both sides use? They're essentially the same. Besides, the NCR has failed to defend the Mojave region because of the garrison oriented tactics they use, not because of the technology they're using.

As for combating mythological creatures, there's no guarantee that they'd be able to summon anything. Since we're arguing that the two forces in question would be doing battle, if the Imperials were fighting in the Fallout universe, they wouldn't be able to summon or even use magic since neither of those exist on Earth. Even if they fought on Tameriel and could in fact summon creatures, any energy based weaponry would easily do the trick to take out mythical creatures (as jedib1 so simply put it).



This argument could be used in Caesar's favor. If the NCR is so much more advanced in the area of technology (which they really aren't) then that just means that Caesar's forces would fend even better against a force employing only primitive weaponry.

Now that's just cheating Falcon, you can't say who would win in a fight Imperial Legion vs Caesar Legion and say the Imp's don't get to use magic. By that logic Caesar doesn't get guns because they don't exist in the Elder Scrolls. Also the legion doesn't have energy weapons so where do you get they can use those against the mythological creatures? how many flamers do you think they have?

Its cheating to take away the Imperials magic, its also cheating to give Caesar's legion weapons they clearly don't have.

The NCR does have the technological advantage, its stated by numerous people through out the game and proven by most of the legion using melee weapons. If the Caesar's legion can charge up a hill using machetes against men with guns and win the battle why is it impossible for the Imperial Legion to do the same.

Let's just say then that if they were fighting on Earth, Caesar would win. If they were fighting on Tamriel, the Empire would win.

Also: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Thermic_lance . Pretty sure a welding implement would use energy to do damage if you used it as a weapon. Not to mention that poisons do damage to mythical creatures in Oblivion, which Caesar's forces are certainly capable of making.

Regarding that last comment, if the NCR has the technological advantage and still cannot hold it's ground against the Legion, that just testifies to the might of Caesar's forces. The Empire has never fought against the NCR or Caesar, so saying that they would have the same advantage is impossible to say. If Caesar can take on a technologically superior foe with lawn mower blades and their bare hands, then surely they can take on a group of primitively armed Imperial soldiers.

Besides, I distinctly remember from both my playthroughs of New Vegas that Caesar's forces use large amounts of high-powered weaponry up to and including Marksman Carbines and Anti-Materiel Rifles. The lower ranks may just use machetes and their fists, but the more experienced soldiers have all types of firearms available to them.

The firepower advantage isn't that great. Hell even though not every CL soldier has a gun, the ones that do have guns (more than half of them) have something like a cowboy repeater or 10mm SMG, instead of some crappy service rifle.



No limits fallacy. Just because a Faded Wraith is immune to a guy swinging a sword doesn't mean he's immune to the Death Star.



Radiation is not a poison. If antivenom in Fallout doesn't cure radiation then a cure poison spell won't either.

Powder charges are much less visible than mines, especially if placed in grass.

Imperials would own Caesar. About 50% of Caesars soldiers have worse equipment than Imperial grunts, plus there is magic.

Imperials will learn how guns work after the very first battle, it will take Caesar years to figure out how magic works.

If Benny made it all the way to The Fort using a stealth boy I can imagine what a few mages using chameleon can do.

Besides, wouldn't the Imperials have like a 50 to 1 advantage?



I think the only way to definitively end the argument is to figure out the comparison between 1 point of damage in oblivion and one point of damage in fallout. If the ratio is close to 1/1 there shouldn't even be a debate, Imperials will have a decisive victory every single time.

Hmm at first I kinda "PHA!" 'd at the very thought of this, but seeing the points made... Might be a close contest, sure CL has guns but those guns use a limited supply of bullets (obviously). Thats where the mages of the IL might just pull through provided they last long enough.

Also depends where this battle is. As IL would probably have much better melee combat, plus in an enclosed area the CL snipers would have minimum affect, PLUS the IL mages could have area of effect spells which would be devastating. However opened up areas CL would have the definite advantage as they can use their guns.

However all that aside, looking back at oblivion the IL has more NPCs that are marked "essential"..... Sooooo I guess thats my determining factor.

ENCHANTMENT!!!

Good point to the person who said it'd take imperials 1 battle to learn that pulling a trigger fires a projectile, yet magic would take quite some time ot learn. Sorry, but in full-out war, my money is on Imperial Legion. Anyone know someone at Deadliest Warrior who can test an Imperial Battlemage vs. a Prime Legionary?

You ever seen what people who haven't been trained to fight with guns look like while fighting with guns?

Giving them guns might actually make them fight worse.

The IL would absorb the guns. They'd train before the next battle and then they'd have special groups to fight with guns. If CL had NCR on their side, then it'd go to CL, but unless the rules're changed, IL gets the victory.

Lol no, no they wouldn't. You have to have someone to teach you how to use guns effectively, and I'd say that's especially true if you're coming from a medieval society. They would just rush in and waste all their ammo.

i think people are giving a little bit to much credit to offensive magic vs guns. i could spam fireballs all day long and visa versa get hit by them and there was little damage done unless you were a very low level character. it should also be defined whether your using the morrowind system which had limited magicka pool and took longer to cast and had chances of failure vs the preteen spasm fest that was obivion's magic system. since caezars doesnt use stealthboys then the imperials would have an advantage with the almighty cloak spell. the summoning spells might be usefull but the offensive magic spells are a joke without mods.

magic really is the lazy persons ideal mechanic.

what if a mage player needs to cure themselves of a disease and didnt pick alchemy or level it up very much?............easy, just give them a cure disease spell which is even better than making the potion.

what if a mage player didnt pick sneak and svcks at it but needs to sneak by someone/something?.......even easier, give them a chameleon or invisibility spell that can be spammed which is way better than having to level up a single sneak skill and it works more effectively as well.

what if a mage player comes across a difficult lock and doesnt have the skill to pick it? (doesnt necessarily apply to obivion since you can pick any lock at low levels if you know what your doing)...........how about we just give them a spell once again even better cause it never fails and you dont lose or have to buy lockpicks.

this goes on and on for tons of things health restore, night-eye etc.