Repentance is not forced. Mercy and redemption are not demanded. Paarth's subsequent behavior suggests repentance, but unless he's asked (and the writers include that script) then we don't know. This brings up a point - I don't think from what I've seen of Skyrim that there's much of any redemption to good. Redemption is at the edge of a sword (or axe). Kill them all and let the eight divines sort them out. But then, it's a video game.

But if you blew up a city with a million people and then some 7,000 or so years later cured cancer, I would imagine many people wouldn't really give a damn, and probably thank you for curing cancer. People in this thread talk about the attrocities he commited as if they were done yesterday. News flash, they weren't. The dragon war took place so long ago, and hell, how many attrocities have the mortals commited since the dragons were gone? I mean, do you still hear about people being angry over the assyrians slaughtering thier neighbors what, 7000 or so years ago? No I don't think so. There is no mortal alive at this point who really has a valid claim that old Paarth wronged him in ANY way. The Blades claims of vengence are not valid at all.

They aren't the orginazation that has the Empire's best intrests at heart anymore. They aren't protecting an emperor, and I have yet to see them protect the dovakin either.

how do i make her do it?

Why complaining about her doing that? Just lay back and enjoy!

I have a question for all those that paar repented? Nowhere does he even say hes sorry, he was just doing as a dovah does.

Also look at it this way, he may have saved the world twice, but again its never stated that paar even cares about mortals. The only reason why he helped us twice was because we shared the same goal of taking down alduin, not saving the world. The dragons dont care that alduin killed all those people and even goes to sovengarde to snack on souls or his destruction and neither does paar, what they care about is that alduins not supposed to be ruler of dragons. No hes supposed to show up, end the world and then go back to where he came from, not hang around and boss and rule the dragons.

Also the way of the voice has always been fishy. Paar convinces the head dude not to use what the aedras gave morfals as a weapon for the sole purpose of being a weapon that will put them on equal groumd as a dovah to not use it for that. A dovah teaching people that the weapon they can learn that will put them on equal grounds as a dovah should not be used as a weapon hence lower mortals standing in the food chain and putting dragons back on top since they are excempt from the rules and regulations of pacifism. Mmmm really let all that sink in.

Basically ur being used by both sides, one side is direct and an ass about it but tells ya straight up and one manipulates ya and puts on a buddy bbuddy act since ur the only one who can do what that side wants.

Paar aint evil but he hasnt changed. His exact words was I was just doing as a dovah does. Does that sound lime he sorry? Also theres a reason why the peoe in the past didnt trust paar and thats because they knew they shared the same goals but for different reasons. The mortals were fighting for freedom and survival and the dovahs were fighting to ouste duin from his spot and paar fighting so hecan taks alduins spot.

Hmmm chop chop...
After reading this, I think I'll finally grew some balls to give the old guy some well deserved peace...

The way of the voice is entirely made up by the greybeards, Paarth had nothing to do with it.


The real reason I'm fine with Paarth staying alive is I'd rather have a dragon that'll wait until the right time to end the world than one that won't. The world really does need to end at some point so that the dreamer doesn't wake up.

the founder of the order went up to the very top where paar is located at, paar had alrdy been there. Im pretty sure he and paar had alot of long talks. It never strikes ya that paar been on that mountain before the leader and also why paar is leader ever since?

Also paar aint waiting anymore, hes off flying to gather the other dragons under the righteouness of his thuum. If ya really think about it, I see paar reason for being on that mountain all this time was that he knew alduin was coming back and that a dragonborn was gonna have to come up there eventually to use the time vortex thingie to learn the weapon to take out alduin. He wasnt up there solely for mediating, I see it as something to pass tne time and also imagine his shock when he found out that mediating on the thuum actually made him even stronger. Not once does he say hes sorry, and the only change hes done is learned how to suppress his need to dominate problemly for the need for survival since his kind was being killed off left and right.

I dont see paar as an evil guy but not a good guy either. Hes nice and everything and helpful because we share the same goal of taking alduin out. But once hes taken out, our reasons for doing so will have us busting heads down the road.

Even if you're right and Paarthurnax did help Jurgen develop the Way of the Voice, it doesn't change the fact that the Way was proven superior to the other methods when the Tongues failed to shout Jurgen down.

If anything, Paarthurnax helped the Nords strengthen their Thu'um.

I haven't read the entire thread yet but my reason for not killing Paarthurnax is that he helped me to deal with Alduin and I wouldn't kill a friend. He helped Dovahkiin to get a weapon that he knew could be used on him too but he did it anyway.

The emblem on the way up to High Hrothgar states:
Emblem IV
Kyne called on Paarthurnax, who pitied Man,
Together they taught Men to use the Voice.

I think this is important and I do see repentance in Paarthurnax's actions and I believe he has redeemed himself. Here's what finally decided it for me. If he were to turn evil or go back on what he was saying, Dragonborn still has Dragonrend and could still deal with him. The future is open.

This is exactly the reason I let him live.

The Blades seem to forget in their talos hero worship that without Paarthurnax the Empire would never have got started, humanity would be living under the boot of the dragon cult without the voice.
Well seems they never heard the phrase " the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

/agree

I agree she's such a BEEARTCH!!! lol I wish you could kill her, I've just 'killed' her again and again for the enjoyment but I wish I could kill her for good. A loathsome character, she deserves to be thrown off a mountain and snapped up into the mouth of a dragon. Love to watch that

lol this why I love the lore in the game. we can take what we want for fact or just mer interpertation or agenda.

Like the tablets themselves, the leader couldnt be shouted down so they agree to follow his example or teachings. Is it because of the way of the voice that paar has been doing that the leader decided to start doing the reason why or was it because being the leader he was alrdy the strongest and it was his own strenght that was because he couldny be shouted down or did he have paars help with the winds in not being shouted down? We can take it for face value or read between lines?
Did paar really pity man or was he convinced by akatosh or ordered by akatosh that mer can learn the thuum to further his objective and desire or was he just ordered to do so or was he using mer to just take out alduin for wanting to stay and rule and not do his purpose or so many other things.
Playing morrowind, ive learned to read between the lines and sometimes facts or traditions were based upon ones agenda. Like vivec and the tribunal, they were considered gods the true gods because the priest took advantage of a situation and pushed the ideolism on the public. Was the bad guy really the main bad guy or was he doing what he was doing to get back at the real bad guys?

Thats why I love the tes lore, because u dont know what u can take for face value or as an agenda or whatnot. Its up to us to decide what we want to believe.

Now as far as delphie and the blades, weither their right or wrong they aint botches or mean for having standards and values and because of those decide not to help ya. Im glad theres someone out in the world that has the balls to stand up for what they believe even if its against the dragonborn.

Also when they give ya the ultimatum, they alrdy gave u all the tools u meed to defeat alduin,, so they arent hindering the worlds salvayion, on hindering ones ego.

I have a question for all those that paar repented? Nowhere does he even say hes sorry, he was just doing as a dovah does.

Also look at it this way, he may have saved the world twice, but again its never stated that paar even cares about mortals. The only reason why he helped us twice was because we shared the same goal of taking down alduin, not saving the world. The dragons dont care that alduin killed all those people and even goes to sovengarde to snack on souls or his destruction and neither does paar, what they care about is that alduins not supposed to be ruler of dragons. No hes supposed to show up, end the world and then go back to where he came from, not hang around and boss and rule the dragons.

Also the way of the voice has always been fishy. Paar convinces the head dude not to use what the aedras gave morfals as a weapon for the sole purpose of being a weapon that will put them on equal groumd as a dovah to not use it for that. A dovah teaching people that the weapon they can learn that will put them on equal grounds as a dovah should not be used as a weapon hence lower mortals standing in the food chain and putting dragons back on top since they are excempt from the rules and regulations of pacifism. Mmmm really let all that sink in.

Actually, Jurgen Windcaller did when he "debated" seventeen master Tongues and won without harming any of them. Paar converted to Jurgen's way, not the other way around.

Paar aint evil but he hasnt changed. His exact words was I was just doing as a dovah does. Does that sound lime he sorry? Also theres a reason why the peoe in the past didnt trust paar and thats because they knew they shared the same goals but for different reasons. The mortals were fighting for freedom and survival and the dovahs were fighting to ouste duin from his spot and paar fighting so hecan taks alduins spot.

To be specific, the spot that Alduin abdicated, as the World-Eater, the "destroy" part of the create-sustain-destroy cycle.

he debated by swallowing their shouts for 3 days until they were exhausted. By swallowing it could mean that he literally swallowdd the shouts, of that he just wistood them or he shouted and canceled them out. It coulda been like what the greybeards did to to the dragonborn and just got exhausted when they couldnt overcome him.

Where does it state the paar took after windcaller and not the other way around? Paar had been up on that mountain long before windcaller went there. Granted I cant come up with anything that windcaller did take after paar but the circumstances tend to go along the way that a warlord becomes a pacifist by taking in the teachings of paar who is much older and has been twiddling his thumbs up there for some time. I maybe wrong.

Also another thing I dont get is that the way of the voice, does it actually hinder the amount of thuum or how long ot takes to learn the thuum? Because in the old books, it heavily imys that the thuum was quite common and that quite alot of nords used a variety of them, but what we are seeing in the game is it takes along time to learn one shout. Is it even mlre powerful? Windcaller won because he swallowed the shouts and thus Lessing the amount of people to use it, because cmon nords aint to fond of the whole pacifist idea.

I think it can still be debated that the way of the voice came to be not because overall it was stronger but maybe the person who started it was stronger than the normal thuum user to begin with. I will agree that it does make a single shout stronger than normal if we going by game mechanics but the whole philosophy behind it is not the better take.

Its almost like the philosophy behind the way of the voice is to forgo the need to dominate hence why the greybeards are nuetral and dont participate in the affairs of the world, what it does state is that dragons and dragonborn do have that right as thuum users to affect the affairs of ghe world but not normal thuum users. Thats were im seeing the fishy part at.

Agreed. My other reason for siding with Parthy, was; how long ago was the Dragon War? I mean, com'on... Delphine needs to relax and let it go. It's not like she was there. I udnerstand her hatred of the Thalmor (I hate them too) but not the Greybreads or the dragons. She's acting out of fear. And frankly, dealing with the dragons is my job. Not hers.

Delphine asked me the otherday to kill Parthurnax or she wont talk to me anymore

if i did what bonus would there be? does the story continue?

The story continues but you alienate the Greybeards. Delphine will allow you to enter into the dungeon you just opened with you own blood and recruit people for the blades.

fixed

He wanted facts not OMG Delphine sux!

You will be part of the Blades, recives a specific potion and be able to go hunting with your buddies. Greybeards will just be angry but won't attack You or anything.

If You won't kill Paar, Blades simply won't recognise You as a member, You'll still be able to enter the Temple, they'll just won't want to talk with You ( why would a secret faction want to share their secret, if Your not one of them ?)

Your choice.

I wish there was a way to tell the Blades - I am the Dragonborn, you are my sworn protectors, so FALL IN, GODS DAMN IT. If I feel like sparing a dragon, I'll damn well do it - you can grumble about it all you want, but you still serve and protect ME. If that doesn't work for you, look for another Dragonborn.

Paarthurnax may have been a right murderous bastard in his day, but who hasn't been? How many people died at the hands of the Dragonborn? How many did The Tribunal kill, or the Nerevarine? How many lives were lost at the bidding of even the most benign Daedric Princes? This isn't the enlightened age, and life is cheap. The mere fact that Paarthurnax turned away from the dominating ways of the dovah is akin to a tiger changing his stripes. He didn't submit to a superior power like Odahviing, for example.

And the Blades themselves aren't exactly angelic. They are originally an Akaviri organization, after all.

If Paarthurnax doesn't deserve to be spared, then there's no redemption in the TESverse at all.

My biggest pet hate about Delphine is that she seems to represent stronger, older women as b****es, and that's not really fair.

I really don't like her personality in game, but think she is a great character for generating an emotional response from players (as evidenced in these forums). I cannot think of any other NPCs who have gotten such a lot of negative press. There are plenty of one-line insults in the game from NPCs like Nazeem, but if you stop and look at him, he's just clueless and ultimately a bit pathetic, since it would be obvious to a 6 year old that we go to the Cloud District more often than him. Most of the insulting NPCs fall into this pathetic category, but Delphine is genuinely frustrating and unlikable to me.

How come there are no strongly opinionated, powerful older men written to be really annoying bas****s? Esbern's personality is angelic compared to Delphine's insulting, dismissive, demanding attitude.

I'd like to see more strong females in games, but not as hateful bi***es that I want to kill.

Thats the thing about her, I dont even thinks shes nord but shes more ballsy than the nords in the game. Shes military and got abandoned and thrown to the wolves by the very empire she used to protect and serve.

I can see the whole kill paar deal as a test to see if ur really behimd tbeir cause or not. You something hard to see if ur on their side and to show that later down the road u aint gonna betray them as well. I mean paar is a dragon the ones they are trying to get rid of and letting him live kinda to them shows that down the road hell right then ur picking the enemy over them and thats what their seeing.

I lime how the stone tablets say nothing about the OTHER dragons that taught the thuum to mer. Theres alot we dont know and also theres gotta be a reason the very humans paar and the dragons taught the thuum to never trusted them at all.


Im umder the impression that the dragons wasnt fighting for a change over the humans being freed and what not. It was the sole fact alduin was trying to rule when he was suppose to be destroying and then getting the hell on back to his place whereever that is. The dragons themselves problemly woulda gone back to being masters over man after alduin was done for. You noticed that the peoe killed and destroyed ALL the dragons afterwards to where even paar himself was hunted? And also with paar going off and rounding up the dragons under the righteousness of his thuum? The way of the voice makes dragons stronger. In the game we are taking out individual dragons that are not grped together and acting out on their own. Letting paar live for saving the world which he did solely on the basis of getting rid of alduin and not for humans safety, could mean that later on we face an unified dragon army. Our dovahs the only one with dragonrend and having to face a literal dragon army thats united? We might win but the cost will be great seeing how our dovah can only be at one place at one time. Paars got all the time in the world to change, we dont. Someday instead of praises, they maybe weeping and cursing our folly of being deceived by a dragon. Or not.

Alduins back at his place when we beat him, paars got no more use for us now. Hes off to gather dragons. The futures to uncertain and harsh that maybe preventive action would be the best thing.

Delphie standing up to us for siding with the enemy by keeping him alive, I aplaud her. At least theirs a few npcs in the world that dont fall down in awe of the dragonborn, some are brave enough to tell us no. Also spoiler, shes actually very nice to us from there own out to the point lf wiping our ass nice lol. Im thinking the whole atitude is either betrayment or abandonment issues to which we lay to rest afterwards we do the the deed.