Is Skyrim a good RPG or TES game? Thread #3

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:00 am

First of all, bolded part is wrong. Developers, generally, know amazingly well what genre they are creating. Skyrim is a great example of a game moving from one genre to another and was designed to be that way. It is leaning more towards the Action-Adventure spectrum, like Zelda, than towards the RPG spectrum like a Final Fantasy or Dungeons & Dragons.

Is an RPG just limited to character development and inventory management? No, of course not because Resident Evil 5 has both of those aspects but is not an RPG.

An RPG is a collection of all of the moving pieces put together in a certain way with varying weights put into each part. RPGs are known, among the game industry genres (and within the mind of the designers) to have more in depth stories than say... First Person Shooters because RPGs require the story to hold the player's long term interest instead of holding on to the short term twitch reflex and instant gratification of multiplayer FPS games.

Halo's story will, more often than not, never be put on the same level of depth as the stories found in TES, Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger. It just won't. Even if you hold Halo up to other sci-fi genre games like Mass Effect the stories won't be on the same level of depth.

RPGs use a heavier stat based system, like D&D or Final Fantasy, because the gameplay is not based around the twitch motor skills of the player but rather the strategic mind. You're not defeating a group of Kobolds because of how well you masted the timing of pressing X, A, X, X, Quarter Circle Forward + B, you're defeating the group of Kobolds because of how well you have mapped out the battle and how well you have built your character for battle. Action RPGs change this and that is what they are designed to do, hence "action."

That is what sets RPGs out from other genres, save for Puzzle (usually), is the fact that they rely more on thought than twitch action, thus why they are more heavily stat based and why they usually have more intricate puzzles in them.

Skyrim is leaning more towards Action-Adventure because it is simply lessening the usage of stats, which cannot be denied.

Dragon Age II and Kingdom Hearts (arguably a much better example) are Action RPGs. DA II and KH still use stats to determine the damage you will do with your regular attacks, like an RPG does, but also molds it with the action genre because you can hit how often you want, dodge as well as you want, etc based on your motor skills as a player.

Actually, to the bolded, yes it can be denied - even with the insistence that RPG = stats (which I don't agree with), stats still play heavily in Skyrim.

In order to be efficient at combat, you need more than just your player motor skills. You need a character that is built and specced properly for combat. The combat is based entirely around stats - weapon damage, armor damage reduction, spell cost and damage, etc...

It may have eliminated dice rolls, but stats and character build and equipment are still key components to success. Player twitch skill may play a certain part, but it is still largely character driven.
User avatar
Patrick Gordon
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 5:38 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 am

You do realize that every single "point" of yours fits to the filled in game, which is arguably one of the greatest RPGs ever created, right?

I would argue that Final Fantasy games, while great games, aren't RPG's. THOSE are the adventure games. Final Fantasy games are often times nothing more than an interactive movie.

But even still, while I haven't played Final Fantasy VI, the Final Fantasy games that I have played do have elements of the player building a character - even if that character is pre-built, but still being able to put your own touch on the character. Infinitely more so than Call of Duty - thus further proving my point.
User avatar
Louise Andrew
 
Posts: 3333
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:01 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:01 am

Actually, to the bolded, yes it can be denied - even with the insistence that RPG = stats (which I don't agree with), stats still play heavily in Skyrim.

In order to be efficient at combat, you need more than just your player motor skills. You need a character that is built and specced properly for combat. The combat is based entirely around stats - weapon damage, armor damage reduction, spell cost and damage, etc...

It may have eliminated dice rolls, but stats and character build and equipment are still key components to success. Player twitch skill may play a certain part, but it is still largely character driven.

Ahem.

Kingdoms of Amalur is built in the exact same fashion but I doubt you would ever call KoA the same as Skyrim.

By the way... combat in all games is based around stats; attack damage, defense, etc. Street Fighter has attack damage, priority, active frames, recovery frames, defense and damage scaling, but it's not an RPG. It's not even an Action RPG.

Stats go further than just weapon damage, armor rating, mana cost, etc. Singular weapon damage is not the same as Strength + Weapon Damage, because Strength can filter into other aspects of your character where as weapon damage is just what is equipped. I said it earlier in this thread I believe, without things like Strength filtering through, things like being "naturally good" at a skill because you were good at a related skill doesn't happen. In Skyrim there is no Strength therefore the only reason you will do more damage with a Greatsword is because the weapon itself is built to do more damage, not because you have a greater Physical Strength and thus can simply hit harder with whatever weapon you are using.
User avatar
Hussnein Amin
 
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:15 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:32 am

in fact, having just said that i suddenly am wondering about something big-time: do those who love the roleplaying freedom of skyrim enjoy the roleplaying of a game like new vegas that actually has real in-game choices that dermine the roleplay?

Well from what I've noticed that gets broken down into two camps. One the one side, (the one I'm in) You have the folks that want to see the game react to your choices in meaningful ways, and see how that effects and interacts with the story and characters. Then you have the "LARPer" type of people that just "Make up" stuff and ignore that no one in the game world reconises what they are doing.
User avatar
Rachel Cafferty
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:48 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:25 am

I would argue that Final Fantasy games, while great games, aren't RPG's. THOSE are the adventure games.

Which again, you would be incorrect. Adventure games, more often than not, have no combat in them at all. Myst is an Adventure game.

But even still, while I haven't played Final Fantasy VI, the Final Fantasy games that I have played do have elements of the player building a character - even if that character is pre-built, but still being able to put your own touch on the character. Infinitely more so than Call of Duty - thus further proving my point.

You mean... simply having the ability to determine what class, gear or abilities your character and NPC companions wear?

Yeah... kind of like Call of Duty multiplayer.

I'm fairly certain, no offense, that you do not know enough about what actually makes a genre a "genre" or a grasp on the history of the game industry. Final Fantasy I had no customization other than picking classes, gear and abilities. Same with Final Fantasy Tactics, same with Final Fantasy X, same with Legend of Dragoon, same with Super Mario RPG.
User avatar
Rachel Cafferty
 
Posts: 3442
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:48 am

Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:36 pm

Except no, you both are wrong.

My definition doesn't include games like, say, Call of Duty.....

My definition is not broad. It is very specific in what it entails. It just happens to entail Skyrim, so you dismiss it, because you want to go against the grain.

So your definition is the Grain


mmk, apologies.
User avatar
Alexxxxxx
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:55 am

Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm

Which again, you would be incorrect. Adventure games, more often than not, have no combat in them at all. Myst is an Adventure game.



You mean... simply having the ability to determine what class, gear or abilities your character and NPC companions wear?

Yeah... kind of like Call of Duty multiplayer.

I'm fairly certain, no offense, that you do not know enough about what actually makes a genre a "genre" or a grasp on the history of the game industry. Final Fantasy I had no customization other than picking classes, gear and abilities. Same with Final Fantasy Tactics, same with Final Fantasy X, same with Legend of Dragoon, same with Super Mario RPG.

Which is why I don't consider Final Fantasy to really be an RPG. There is no roleplaying going on in them.

But then again, I feel that way about pretty much the entire jRPG genre
User avatar
Alisha Clarke
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:53 am

Post » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:41 pm

So your definition is the Grain


mk

My definition, and the definition of the entire industry at large.

This whole "Skyrim isn't an RPG" reeks of RPG-hipsterism. The RPG got popular, so we can't call it "RPG" anymore!
User avatar
cutiecute
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:51 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:16 am

yeah ok bud. the point of the thread at large just whooshed over you. I mean I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said its not about whether or not its an RPG, the first thread started as - if it is -

Second? why it isnt

Third the title was renamed because the issue was rectified, Good game, Bad RPG. but of course your Definition is the Definition right?
User avatar
Cat
 
Posts: 3451
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:10 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:17 am

Which is why I don't consider Final Fantasy to really be an RPG. There is no roleplaying going on in them.

But then again, I feel that way about pretty much the entire jRPG genre

Then you are the 1% against the 99%. You're also saying that Diablo is not even an Action RPG.
User avatar
Laura-Jayne Lee
 
Posts: 3474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:35 pm

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:39 am

Thread lock incoming... And as for the thread Skyrims a good game, an average ES and a poor RPG.
User avatar
Kyra
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:24 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 am

Thread lock incoming... And as for the thread Skyrims a good game, an average ES and a poor RPG.

Not a big fan of the thread lock >>;
User avatar
kyle pinchen
 
Posts: 3475
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:01 pm

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:06 am

Not a big fan of the thread lock >>;

I actually have to agree. On other forums instead of wasting space with a bajillion threads. They have threads go up to at least 100 pages or so before actually locking it.
User avatar
Trevi
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:26 pm

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:00 am

Eh, the topic has been discussed enough, not a big loss.
User avatar
cassy
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:57 am

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 am

Post limit, whether you agree with it or like it. :smile:
User avatar
Keeley Stevens
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:04 pm

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim