Roggvir's execution.

Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:08 pm

So no real proof. I figured as much.

The proof is that if it was indeed against the law, Ulfric could and should have been arrested for issuing the challenge as soon as he made it. He was not.

And if it was against the law, then Torygg was just as guilty of breaking that law as Ulfric was, simply because he agreed to participate in an illegal act. If he had won after agreeing to fight Ulfric to the death, then that also would have to be counted as murder since it would be an unlawful death deliberately caused by the willing commission of a crime.

So you have two men agreeing to participate in an act which will certainly result in the death of one or both, in the capital city of an Imperial province, which is also the HQ of the Empire's official presence in Skyrim (the Legion), and also the seat of power of the man who rules over both the hold and the entire province, and that man is also one of the men agreeing to participate in this act, AND that act is clearly and indisputably illegal according to the prevailing laws of the supreme authority over the province, i.e., the Empire, to which that man is supposedly both devoted and subordinate... and yet it never occurs to anyone to do anything to enforce those laws or even mention their existence and relevance until AFTER their man loses?

And even though their man was just as guilty of breaking that law as the so-called murderer, somehow he's the victim and the other guy is a criminal?

If the duel was illegal, then the challenge was illegal. And yet Ulfric was permitted to make it with impunity, and Torygg was permitted to accept it with impunity. So either it wasn't illegal, or else nobody cared that it was illegal until after it was all over and they were unhappy with the outcome. Which means that either the law against it does not exist, or else it is only selectively enforced depending on the situation, and the Empire's claim to any kind of moral superiority or authority in this instance is utterly bogus.

If Torygg had won, do you think the Empire's representatives would've marched into Solitude and arrested him for breaking their alleged law forbidding duels to the death? Would they have sent him to the block for the "murder" of Ulfric Stormcloak? Unless you can say yes to the former, at least, and agree that their doing so would have been fair and just, then any talk about the Empire and its alleged laws and how they apply to Ulfric in this situation is nonsense.
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:55 am

Can you save roggvir? If you go in their and save him from execution?
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Joanne
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Can you save roggvir? If you go in their and save him from execution?

Supposedly not, his death is scripted. I have not tried it but I have read some reports of weirdness from people who thought they successfully disrupted Roggvir's execution, such as his head falling off anyway and/or him showing up without it later. :ohmy:
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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:35 am

Can you save roggvir? If you go in their and save him from execution?
You can save him in the sense that you can kill/knee all the executioners.

Doesn't matter because roggvir will have a heart attack and die if he doesn't get beheaded.
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Nick Swan
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:46 am

So no real proof. I figured as much.

I can't help but feel you're not trying to contribute to the topic. It feels way more like you're trying to troll it.
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Peetay
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:17 pm

Can you save roggvir? If you go in their and save him from execution?
No you can't. I tried it by doing the Stormcloak quest line to it's end before visiting on Solitude at first time. The execution wasn't going on there but first guard I met said to me "It's too bad they executed Roggvir before we got here."
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:02 pm

He deserves to be executed just as much as the Dragonborn.
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Lisa Robb
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 pm

I think he shouldnt have been executed. there are two reasons, both of which are at the very start of the game. First, they don't even care that you weren't on their list. They just decide to kill you anyway. So alraedy we can't trust their ability to distinguish innocent or guilty; all we know is they have no problem killing an innnocent. And the second reason: The empire has screwed up priorities. I mean think about it. What happens at the start of the game? The imperials waste their time cutting off some stormcloak redshirt's head. Had they not wasted that time, they could have ended the rebellion right there. But they did waste their time.

I do not reward stupidity.
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Heather Dawson
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:28 am

Neither. He was a traitor, but he should have been imprisoned. Doesn't change my opinion that the Empire's best for Skyrim, though.

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking.
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Nichola Haynes
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Well, it's not a case of him being a traitor. Nord culture dictates that the challenger isn't guilty if he wins, it's a fight to the death, that the High king accepted. What, was Ulfric supposed to allow himself to be killed by the king? No, the danger was equal to both and the same standards applied to both. Had Ulfric died, would the king be held accountable for murder of the Jarl of Windhelm? Of course not. Roggir was murdered by those who disregarded and disrespected the Nord customs to suit their own political and idealogical gains.

How can one murder the king, if the challenge was legal and risk to both?
How can one help a 'murderer', if he wasn't even a murderer.
Case closed.

This.
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Jennie Skeletons
 
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Post » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:09 am

I think he screwed up and opened the gate instead of closing by accident, and just started a whole row that he was a hero and crap because it was too embarrassing to admit what happened.

You may think I'm a troll, but I think that is what happened
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Wanda Maximoff
 
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