Welcome to politics.
And yet Roggvir is still yet not guilty of a single wrong.
The king was weak, stupid and without a brain. He brought his doom on himself by allowing Ulfy in the city to begin with.
Had he declined, the moot would have been called, yet there would have been a chance he'd be recalled as high king. But the fool took the worst possible option.

He freakin wielded Goldbrand when storming the white gold tower

Ahh yes, I forgot that Mede in Skyrim is a Junior. However, Mede II was probably fought for morale of his troops more than anything and would probably fall in combat to an experienced Thalmor Battlemage, but could probably fend off front line soldiers with ease(was it him or daddy who had Goldbrand?) My point was that most political figures are on the weaker side, but Ulfric comes out and says outright that if you can't fight, you don't deserve to rule. Yet, look at the Counts from Oblivion, or most Jarls in Skyrim. Ulfric could probably take them all on in single combat! Most are old or inexperienced. So where does Ulfric come off saying that Torygg is weak, therefore he was unfit to rule Skyrim?

Ulfric did nothing unlawfull so i dont think Roggvir did anything wrong by letting him out

Lethal duels againts the nobility are not legal under Imperial Law

It's the nordic way to be strong. The empire is seen as being weak

Where is this stated? For all we know, the Empire may be very lax when it comes to other lands and how they rule and kill themselves. It just may be that the Empire only got pissy, because Ulfric was threatening to leave the Empire. If Ulfric hadn't had plans to leave the Empire, I bet you the Empire wouldn't have given all that much of a [censored].

It was mede II , and he cut his way threw a WHOLE ARMY to escape the imperial city.

but under nordic law a challenge to the highking or jarls in court must be accepted.

Another reason the empire needs to go then.

Show me where its stated that the Empire condones lethal duels among the nobility. Until you do we can only take the Empire's word for it that killing the High King was against Imperial law. Word from Alvor seems to indicate the practice of killing other Jarls or the High King in duels comes from bad times before the founding of the Empire.


To bad Ulfric didn't win Skyrim's independence before killing the High King. And i seems rather obvious a lot of people no longer consider that tradition even valid. Otherwise Ulfric wouldn't have to fight half of Skyrim to take his postion as High King.

To me it sounded like he was just a good old fashioned Nord.

Yeah, because the propaganda by the Imperial provinces in Skyrim totally didn't affect how people reacted to the news of the High Kings death. The only ones ignorant of this rule, are those blinded by their ignorance of the facts. Even then, ignorance isn't an excuse for murdering an innocent gate keeper.

This is like the movie Troy when Hector comes down to protect Paris because Paris was too weak to show face in a real fight.
He broke the terms of the challenge, by intervening. So are the imperials intervening in a personal battle between Ulfric and
High King. To hold the door for someone is mere courteous, when Ulfric wasnt in the wrong for winning the challenge. The fact
that it is a challenge nullifies the fact that it was a murder. Do wrestlers on WWE get arrested for winning a match?

Imperial Supporter here.

Their execution was unfair, since he acted legally. However, Imperial Laws are precedent over Nord Traditions. We're part of a civilized Skyrim, not a barbaric one. I hate Ulfric with a passion, because he's a coward and only in it for Self-gain. Perhaps people should listen to what the Jarls, including his own supporters, have to say about him. They all acknowledge he's only in it for power. Not to mention once he has his 'independent Skyrim' he'll have no power to repel the Thalmor since his armies will be recovering from the Civil War. Ulfric is an idiot, and anyone who follows him is also an idiot for being a pawn in his game.

I'd rather not be a pawn of the empire which is just a pawn of the thalmor. Thalception! Skyrim has a future and it isn't with the empire. The empire we knew in morrowind and oblivion is dead and isn't coming back.

What else would you have our once great Empire do? We are no longer led by a Dragonborne emperor, that is why times seem dark. The Thalmor may have the upper hand for now, but i'm sure their downfall is imminent.

Im Dragonborn, ive taken on forts full of imperial soldiers before my stormcloak comrades could even arrive. Im not worried one bit about the Thalmor, ill slaughter them all myself. In that case, Why not do it with Talos at my back?

Ulfric is a pawn of the Thalmor, if not for him the Empire could have continued ignoring the ban on Talos and its armies would be better prepared to fight the elves.

I don't know honestly. If I was in the empires position i would probably be striking at the thalmor now since most of their army was killed in the great war. I'm sure Skyrim would back them on that.

I dont care what Ulfric is, the cause is true, and thats all I care about.

You do realize the whole Stormcloak rebellion is the Thalmor's doing, and the Thalmor sometimes aid in the war effort? Even though the Thalmor don't want you winning, it will bea great excuse to ride on Solitude since you are openly hostile.

Did you know that the Thalmor doesn't want an Stormcoak victory any more than they want an Imperial victory? His statues as an asset(not agent) is limited to the amount of damdage he can do against the imperial legion. If Ulfric wins the civil war he will go from draining the Thalmors enemy of resources to being the leader of a nation openly hostile to the Aldmeri Dominion. Unless there is some other reason he is considered an asset(which there is no proof of as far as I know) he will lose his status as an asset the moment he wins the civil war.

Deserve to die? No likely not. A duel to the death by concent of both parties is honorable and in keeping with nord law and tradition. Based on what he knew, no crime had been commited and he let Ulfric ride out of the gates.
How ever there is nothing far or honorable about using the Thu'um to dash a young king senseless against a wall and run him through before he can gather his wits. The fault lay with Ulfric.. just like when we got caught in the ambush laid for him and nearly lost our head.
Roggvir's crime was poor decision making. Even if the dual had been honest and fair, it is unlikely that the greaving widow left on the throne will treat the man who let her husbands killer walk free with any kindness.
Sadly, had he refused Roggvir would likely have met the same fate as the late king.

Way to completely misread the history, the Thalmor in Cyrodiil were defeated but the Imperial legion was devastated they had no ability to continue the fight.


He's still a pawn of the Thalmor, if he died twenty-five years ago the Empire would be better off. Their wouldn't be a Civil War, without Ulfric making trouble the Empire would have continued ignoring the ban on Talos. All Ulfric has done is weaken Skyrim and the Empire and put the Thalmor into a stronger position.

Although the Thalmor wish to avoid a Stormcloak victory, it doesn't really matter since the Dominion wins in the end no matter what. A Stormcloak victory means Skyrim is that much easier to take, since the Stormcloaks drained themselves dealing with the Imperials, and since the Empire will not help them protect Skyrim(obviously.) Each day that the Stormcloaks fight is a day lost that the EMpire could have saved to take the fight to the Dominion. Do you think the Empire wanted to back down and give up forever? No, they were biding their time. They agreed to the WGC, but didn't enforce it. They planned on a Round Two, but the Stormcloaks kind of rained on that parade.