If I recall it's not much longer than most humans.(When they become fertile I mean)

Around 19 or so? I know there's a blurb about it in a book(Probably Barenziah again)

agreed

this is a good argument why I side with the Stormcloaks!

Ulfric abused the Voice by using it in a duel.

It is the Dragonborn's divine duty to remove such individual and their supporters from existence.

=P

i say u kill both sides rule your self

He was only one who respected nordic tradition and let Ulfric to go after the fair duel with Toryg. He did the right thing. And anyway it's not right to kill a man because he has opened a gate. But the Empire doesn't care about the rights of its citizens - if you have thoughts against the concordat or Emperor, you doesn't accept Thalmor to be your lords, you worship Talos or you see Talos as a divine or you are in wrong place at wrong time (like Dovahkiin in the start of the game) you will go under the axe of headsman. That's how the Empire solves their problems - they just kill all they doesn't like for a reason or without it.

Skyrim is a part of the Empire, so the duel wasnt legal. It was just a murder.

Also, Ulfric had the power of the Voice. That is like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight: not even remotely "fair combat". That makes it a dishonorable duel, and therefore Murder, even by Nord tradition.

Finally, everyone who has died in the war, on both sides, are at the feet of Roggvir.

Dude had it coming.

Alright, I know I skipped a lot of stuff, but I just have to get this out. Anybody who said it was just an Rogvir was a traitor, screw you. ULFRIC DIDN'T MURDER ANYBODY! HE CHALLENGED THE HIGH KING TO A [censored] DUEL, THE KING ACCEPTED, AND LOST. SUCH IS NORD LAW. NOT MURDER. FIGURE IT OUT.

See above book "War of Betony". The empire allows duels. Heck in Morrowind at the end of the Imperial Legion questline, you have to duel(And kill) the previous leader to take his spot.

He is an accessory to murder.

The real question is whether he had pre-arranged with Ulfric to be at the gates to let him out.

Duels are legal in the Empire. In Daggerfall you can have them and in Skyrim there's a book "How Orsinium Passed to the Orcs" which tells about a duel between an Orc and Breton. No doubt it was legal. So following Nordic tradition to duel wasn't illegal. And about the Thu'um: it's powerful but it's still something what the greatest Nord warriors may have. It's not against the rules to use shouting in a duel. Better warrior wins and shouting is one weapon you may use in there and in the end it was Ulfrics blade which killed the king not the shout. And in the end you can't blame Ulfric or Roggvir about the civil war and it's victims. The Empire started it by betraying the Nords. I'm not meaning only the concordat - I also mean the promise they broke. When The Great War was just over and the White Gold Concordat was already there the Empire promised to Ulfric and Nord militia to have free worship of Talos if they'll take care about the Markath incident. They did as the Empire asked and then they got their reward but when Thalmor heard about it the Empire broke their promise to the Nords and tried to take back the reward they already gave. Wasn't that a traitorous act? That betrayal started the war because Nords wanted to keep the free worship of Talos as the Empire promised them to have. All the lives we have lost during the civil war are crying for the justice against the Emperor. The Emperor Titus Mede II is only one who should be executed.

Most great Nord warriors have some mastery of the Thu'um. There is nothing taboo about using it in a duel or otherwise. The only people who view the use of the Thu'um as taboo are the followers of the Way of the Voice (the Greybeards), which is a cult. The ancient Nords had used the Thu'um in battles and duels long before the Way of the Voice was ever conceived.

Roggvir was innocent. Even those with the Imperial view on this matter should agree that execution was unnecessary. We don't even know how deep Roggvir was involved. Did he know why Ulfric was trying escaping Solitude and what he did? Did anyone shout at him to stop Ulfric? Did Ulfric command him to open the gate, or threaten him? Before he is executed, Roggvir tries to justify his actions, but we don't know when he found out about the duel. Best-case scenario, he was just an innocent gate guard, minding his own business.

That is to say, it's murder when the Empire decides to enforce their laws because doing so is advantageous to them, but perfectly okay in other situations already noted in this thread where they don't see fit to enforce them at all. Either that or the law that makes "death by duel" illegal doesn't actually exist and the Empire is declaring it murder simply because it suits their needs to do so.


Well sure, when you put it that way, how unfair of Ulfric to train in secret and learn to Shout so he could smuggle the Thu'um into his duel with the poor unsuspecting Torygg... oh wait that's not what happened at all. Everybody knows Ulfric can Shout, it's not a secret, it's a documented fact, he used the Thu'um in Markarth 25 years ago.

If you accept a challenge to a knife fight believing that the only weapon your opponent has on him is a knife, and you've agreed to "knives only," and then he pulls out a hidden gun in the middle of it and shoots you... well, then you've got a reason to complain.

However if you accept a challenge to duel to the death with a person who you know damn well is toting around a machine gun, and all you have is a knife, and you accept the challenge anyway and don't make it clear going in that the fight is going to be knives only for the sake of fairness, and you get shot and lose, then... too freaking bad. The time to set the rules of the fight are before it starts, not after you lose and want to whine about unfair it was.

AFAIK there is not one single reference in the game to the notion that Ulfric using the Thu'um was "illegal" or that he violated some rule about how traditional duels are carried out or that he violated the terms of that specific duel he had with Torygg. Oh, they don't like the fact that he challenged Torygg, and they don't like the fact that he won and Torygg is dead, but not once have I heard even his most vehement detractors hint that he cheated or broke the rules by using the Thu'um.

Why are people assuming that just because the Septim empire allowed legal duels 200 years ago that the Medes do to? Is there any proof or are people just going to keep posting the times that the last empire let duels happen?

Mage duels are legal in skyrim.

At least the imperial guards never try to stop it when I have them happen.

Besides, Mede said he was keeping the old rules of the empire when he took over.

He is responsible for the deaths of many people, imperial and stormcloak. If he had not let Ulfric go skyrim could have been spared much Bloodshed.

Two random mages isn't at all the same thing as two Jarls or the High King in a duel. Why would guards react the same to those clearly different situations?

And any proof to Mede saying he would ruin the Empire in the old way?

Proof is that no one in Torygg's court bestirred themselves to intervene in the duel until after Torygg lost.

In the hands of a corrupt government, laws are just another weapon.

Yeah why enforce the law at all.

So no real proof. I figured as much.

Guys this topic has been discussed HUNDREDS of times, most of us empire supporters think Roggvir didn't deserve to die, (Even they he's a mean person).

If they can execute you just because your name isn't on the list, then surely betraying a king is as good a reason as any. I don't particularly fancy executions though.

That being said:

Geeettttttt oooonnnnnn wwwiiiitttthhhh iiiiiiitttttttt!!!!!!!!!

I'd say it's quite a bit more substantial than nothing. Which is what you've provided. Perhaps you'd like to cite this big change in imperial law?

What, you want section and paragraph? By that standard there's no "proof" that Torygg's death was murder, either.

They can't, really, but see above what I said about tyrants, corruption etc. According to Ralof, they were all expecting Ulfric to be taken to Cyrodiil for trial. Tullius decided to skip that pesky custom.

That traitor deserved far worse.