Or the empire could've kept to themselves and just let Ulfric take over so very few if any people would die. Then we have 3 independent nations vs the Thalmor(hammerfell is the third). They may not be allied but they share a common goal.

I am not arguing which side I think is better for Skyrim, merely pointing out that the nature of Ulfrics status as an asset is dependent on the civil war. I have been in enough discussions about the Civil War to know that depending on pespective you can get both sides to look as the good guy or the bad guy

As far as Im concerned no army is necessary, Ill kill every last thalmor myself. So I would rather do it in the name of Talos.

He didn't commit a crime, Ulfric challenged the High King to a legal duel, therefore Ulfric didn't commit a crime either. The Imperials just got butthurt because their little puppet boy didn't win.

I love how this turns into an empire vs storm cloak argument every time

Everybody who talks to npc's knows
1) the challenge was legal under skyrims law
2) the king accepted the challenge
3) the king lost after ulfric stabbed him with a sword not a shout

With all these facts in mind how can anyone say the gate keeper was guilty of anything?

The fact is you cannot seriously believe that he deserved to die unless you carry on about what's right and wrong for skyrim or thalmor arguments in the case.

Roggvir was as innocent as the dragon born at Helen..............

Why would they let Ulfric take over? Skyrim has many resources and is an important nation to have. Once it is in Ulfric' hands, he will never give it up. It is common knowledge to Ulfric Supporters that the Stormcloak gig is merely a mutual benefit, Ulfric gets his dream job as King and everyone can live free of the Empire and the Dominion. Losing Skyrim could potentially be fatal to the Empire.

And with how the Empire has been running itself into the ground, it needs a giant wake up call, or it'll just keep dragging everyone else down or throw them under the bus.

He should have asked for clearance before opening the gate. Then again when Dawnguard comes out I will make my imperial who looks like a standard soldier into an evil secret Thalmor agent.

Well they gave up their other provinces pretty fast. They let Blackmarsh go without stopping them. Then Elsweyr seceded and again they did nothing. They gave up Hammerfell on a whim. Why not Skyrim?

I am annoyed that when I tried to save him he died anyway. I killed the executioner and all the guards around him but he just ran around a bit then went back to the chopping block and fell to the ground dead.
I was disappointed because I thought that I might have been able to save him.

Ah, silly Stormcloaks

Are you all forgetting that at the time Ulfric killed the high king the Civil War had already begun? What Roggvir did was the equivalent of letting Osama Bin Ladin kill President Obama and then walk out the back door of the white house. Just because the duel was honorable/legal doesn't mean that it's ok to let the leader of an enemy nation go about wandering around Solitude.

Traitor to tradition: No
Traitor to Solitude and the Empire: Heck Yeah!

Did I think it was just? No
Did I think he deserved to die? No, but there's no helping it, really.
Was he a hero? No, but he was a honorable man.

Before anyone goes flaming, let's clear up on what's happening here:
(From Sybile Stendor - The Imperial Suporter)
1. "Jarl" Ulfric come into a council meeting. Torygg and many council member.
2. Ulfric challenge Torygg to a deathmatch. In Nordic tradition, if Torygg refused, Ulfric can call a vote for the throne.
(Now the one detail that the Imperial picked on)
3. Ulfric's used Thu'um and slash away at Torygg.
-Stormcloak argument: Thu'um is an ancient Nordic art, considering that the duel is in Nordic tradition, this use is perfectly okay.
-Imperial argument: Use of Thu'um is a breach of the rule. Therefore forfeiting the duel and turned it into a murder.
4. Rogvir, being an honored Nord, let Ulfric go since he clearly fight fair and square.
(From here on is my personal anolysis)
5. The Imperial need Skyrim. So they turn Ulfric's duel into a murder, cause if they don't, Ulfric would gather many supporter and eventually frees Skyrim.
6. Rogvir, being a traitor for letting Ulfric go, is the only way to do it. Not only does his execution makes people believed that Ulfric murdered Torygg, it will also calm many people from the shock of losing a high king.

So Rogvir is just an unfortunate pawn (in fact, if he doesn't let Ulfric go and by some miracle the imperial failed to kill Ulfric, the imperial is in some big [censored]). Where his commander turned on him/his tradition that he hold onto. The one who executed him is just because they're doing this for the good of the empire (for the good of many). But he is an honorable man, for even if his leaders all turned against him and his tradition, he still stand strong even if it means certain death.

Death Penalty was too harsh, should of imprisoned him.

the thalmor should have burned his head of, then electrocuted him
damn nords

A very good summarization of the situation.

Imperials need to update to Hanging and use the gallows, would have had fun watching Roggvir dance on the end of the rope.

I don't think this game's physics could do that very well =\

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/war-betony-pro-sentinel. Either that or the empire has never cared to enforce the law until now.


We meet Gothryd in Daggerfall. He was never arrested or charged with anything for this. Pretty much all political organizations use duels to decide their leaders. Morrowind loved doing it.

The Empire should butt out. The duel was a nord custom. A challenge was issued and accepted. Ulfric won that challenge.

HAHAHAHAHA
^This.


Seems I hit a nerve here.
Yes, good. Let the hate flow through you.

Elves reproduce slowly. If the Stormcloaks defeated the Empire, they'd still recoup long before the Dominion would be able to defend themselves. Nevermind that the Stormcloaks could ally with Hammerfell since the Imperials spurned them, too.

I always wondered why I never see any Elven children. How long does it take them to become an advlt?

I've never read an exact number. The reason the Snow Elves attacked the Nedes and Ysgramor was because they saw how fast Humans reproduced and were afraid.

i always try my damndest to save him (although it usually ends in a blood bath with an angry horde dead because i helped omeone who should not have died)

He should have left with Ulfric, while he had the chance. He stayed behind, and faced the music. That's either monumentally stupid, or extremely courageous. As Irileth says to you as you're leaving with Ohdie, "You're either the bravest person I've ever seen, or the biggest fool."

To me, he did what he thought was right, and was willing to pay the ultimate price. Whatever his politics, I respect the man's resolve.