I acknowledged the one decent idea you had: have an option where NPC's give directions.

Got it.

Well, you actually CAN play without quest markers spoiling everything for you. I've been doing it a LOT. Load the quest and open the map, and just look at the general area of the map the marker is in and head that direction. When you are getting close to your destination, uncheck the quest in your log run around to your hearts content until you find what you're looking for. Also, most everyone here will be playing multiple characters, so once you've done a quest the first time (no matter HOW you found the destinations) you have a pretty good idea where you're going when you do it again anyway.

I actually find the map markers in general help me find stuff I might not find without them, and they keep me from wasting hours wandering around aimlessly looking for something in the wrong place. However, I do agree with those who want more descriptive directions. It could easily be done via the jouirnal with no need for voiced dialog.

Well, then the conversation would be as follows :

"Why are the mobiles(NPC's) holding the hand of the player and telling them everything?"

The guild quests/main quests are still "Go Here" from memory, the place where you are headed isn't really a landmark and is the same as a quest marker only without the Interface.

As I have stated before, quests designed with the developer assuming the quest markers will be used are different to quests made assuming the quest marker won't be used and both can have the quest markers added later.

ZINGAA

Never played Morrowind (I know, sacrilege, shame on me) but "go here (pointing at map)" seems the same to me.

If we just use directions, then eliminate the map entirely.

A fair criticism, but why say that all quests can't be completed without quest markers then?

Is some information better than none?

Is full disclosure helping the old lady cross the street?

I am hopelessly intoxicated... I mean confused.

Ah yes, I'm sure we all miss the directions from Morrowind:

"Head out the gate, there's 4 gates to this city so just wing a rock and go whatever direction it does. Follow the bearly discernable road through the Ashlands until you find a plant, turn right or left and walk diagonally for 30 yards. You should find a lake or a mountain or something... get over it or go through it... then turn around and head back to that plant and do 5 spinning cartwheels. Keep walking until you find the place and if you fall off the edge of the map you've probably gone too far. Good luck and thanks for the legwork you n'wahfetcheroutlander scum."

Dis.

The OP shares just about the same feelings I have for quest markers, and I thank you for bringing up the issue in the forums.

Hopefully the next TES or Fallout for that matter, aren't ridden with handicap options as a default.
Im all for turning TES back into an RPG rather than keeping it as is, a action-adventure game with a sandbox style world.

so are you now changing your position to the non use of quest markers being handholding? instead of, you don't need to use quest markers to complete the game?

do you lack the faith of beth's creativity to come up with quality non-handholding directions when, as jagar stated, quest markers are not assumed from the beginning?

I love Morrowind, but you hit the nail on the head with that one. Sometimes, they were almost too specific.

But what is opinion is that it's a bad thing. I personally don't want to have to wander to hell and gone trying to find something through vague NPC directions. How realistic is it that in a world like Skyrim that there wouldn't maps of known locations? Or are you suggesting that nobody in the entire land would know where anything is?

If you don't like it then turn the thing off and use the map that comes with the game. All you'd need is the name of the place and your current location. Then you wouldn't have to bring the Map feature up at all if you didn't want to. The idea of an explorer without a map and compass is inane. Humans with any kind of technology haven't lived that way for some 10 millenia. If Skyrim was a game about ancient hunter-gatherers who followed the herds or know their known locations by seasonal migration, then fine.

But it's not.

wow, the lack of the ability to understand an argument is astounding sometimes.

Giving directions leaves it up to you to find your own way (for the first time at least), saying "GO to WOlfskull cave" conveniently marked on your map already is the same as the quest marker.
It isn't for what I would've thought were obvious reasons, saying go here it's marked on your map means you can't do anything but auto-pilot to the destination instead of finding your way, and obviously that is logical to do if you have already been there so the map has a purpose (and marking it on your map makes sense if the questgiver has been there)

Looking back at it, I dont know how i ever found anything in Morrowind. Managed ok in the end though. Bit different to the "Speak to SoandSo" (fullstop) in Skyrim.

+1

I can understand your pov. I recall a bit of Dagerfall fun. I agree with somehow making this optional. I love the questmarkers. I would enjoy the next TES game either way.

so now the position people are taking is that the OPTION to not need quest markers is a foolish one and that there is no creative alternative. amazing.

you forogt how you found anything because you have been tainted!!

Seeing the quality improvement in graphics, NPC schedules and combat I'd hope Bethesda would improve in direction writing as well.

Thats what i mean. When there wasnt a marker, i got by. now that there are markers, the thought of losing them makes me a little nervous...

LAST TIME I CHECKED COMPASSES POINTED NORTH

Lol, I'm not sure where to place your opinion as we seem to have very different playstyles.

Absolutely you have to discover a location prior to being able to fast-travel to said destination. Quest markers, in addition tofast-travel, give you the option to reach that destination in the minimum amount of time invested. If that's how you enjoy playing Skyrim, that's fine. I will lose no sleep because of this; however, like others have stated before me, if you were to play a character that does not fast travel, nor uses quest markers, the game becomes entirely exploration and spontaneity.

A little more in depth conversation including directions, certainly not for every-single-[censored]-quest, but at the very least some, would be welcome.

Markers are a huge detriment to the most appealing (to myself and others') playstyle when the game is quite literally designed around indirect exploration/discovery. Yes, I can turn them off, but no, it feels out of place and there were not enough options implemented to counter-act an option to have them disabled.

I like to sometimes pretend to have conversations asking with people asking where someone or something is. Works well enough, I guess.

yes, obviously some do. too detailed vs to vague. again, that was not the original point being made. i love the digression people have as a debate progresses and their points are proven invalid.