One thing every parent should absolutely drum into their children : "Respect is not merely to be demanded. Respect has to be earned".

I hadn't realized my opinions on how riots should be treated make me as bad as people who loot and burn down buildings. I guess that's my bad. Does anybody know what the local business owners are saying about these people?

I agree.

:facepalm: :facepalm:

These "rich people" they talk about are most likely people who have worked hard to earn their livings; not everyone can have massive amounts of money but getting off your butts and doing something productive will get you your future, rioting and being stupid will worsen it. These kids should look over to Africa and see what real problems are, they should be thankful they have a roof over their heads and food on the table and not be dismal because they don't own all the latest in technology. Also I think this "worship" of alcohol is disgusting, they're celebrating because they can drink all night? Seriously... some people need to readjust their priorities in life.
Destroying businesses, they are possibly destroying their own future, and they claim it's all the goverment's fault.. sure, blame it on the government, I bet if you asked them what the goverment is doing "wrong" they wouldn't be able to tell you.

Hate all these rioters giving this country a bad image, everyone is looking to London now.

RIP to the guy who died in Croyden, rioter or not.

It is the mindset that you can justify violence because someone did something bad that is the wrong sort of mindset. You don't fight fire with fire, you only feed them that way.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those local business owners would rather have violent people locked away someplace where they can be rehabilitated if possible, and if not possible then simply locked away forever. Rather than having them beaten and bruised so that the cycle of violence can continue and even if not through those people themselves then through their children who would be brought up with the same skewered perceptions of justice their parents would hold.

Revenge may be sweet at the moment but for the long term trying to mend the situation through education and patience is by far the superior option.

Edit: Do take note I′m not saying they should get by scotch free, I′m suggesting prison time. And then I'm not suggesting the movie style of prisons and neither am I suggesting the hotel type with luxuries which some prisons offer. I′m suggesting a middle ground, nothing fancy but a place in which they get to live away from the influences of their peers and can get educated on human relations and how the world generally works.

I'm running on the assumption here that people can be salvaged because I do think they can, those that can't obviously have places where they can be put such as harsher types of prisons and mental hospitals.

Most patients in mental hospitals are very vulnerable people: they're absolutely the last place those thugs should go.

Whatever the police are doing now is being done wrong, riot control is called riot control for a reason. You don't fight fire with fire, you fight it with a high pressure water hose that leaves it a minuscule ember. I think rehabilitation would be ideal too, but it's not like we can sit these people down and make them walk peacefully to jail, or maybe we could set barricades on the streets so they riot themselves into a giant cage and then we lock it, or OR! Maybe riot control can do what riot control does, and control the riot.

We can’t just fire a hose at them-there is a careful balance of controlling the riot and not killing people/swinging support away from the police. I make no claim to be an expert and hoses might be the right way. But they might not, and I think we should wait and see what the people in charge, who are working on this, will come up with.

I wasn’t aware that most criminals walk peacefully to jail, and as for a giant cage (please tell me you’re not serious) it could be tricky to get all the rioters to go a particular way and not to notice said cage.

As for riot control controlling the riot, as a friend said:
“The riot has ‘spun out of control’-what do these people think a riot is?”
If you mean subduing the people, see the beginning of my post.

Instead of the cops sitting back and watching people's homes getting burned and people getting killed by these [censored]s, why not go on a counter-assault? Send in like 500 cops and just clear the rioters out, you don't have to be "brutal", just clean the place out of the rioters.

How?

It's unfortunately a no-win situation for law enforcement. No matter what they do, some people will accuse them of being heavy-handed and some will accuse them of being too idle. I think they're more in the latter camp right now and think they could step up riot control measures slightly, but as people have said, those have ramifications. Not least of all when it seems these riots are still on the rise, with new locations and new rioters springing forth on a consistent basis - it'd be largely pointless to mobilize the police forces in an end-game scenario when tensions are still swelling. Hopefully, as the days go by and the people realize the growing toll to person and property that they're causing, they'll wise up. Though right now, that seems like an awful lot to ask.

In the long run, definitely. In the short run? These riots must be ended as soon as possible to avoid more damage and unjiry to innocent people and their property - and that means beating it down.

The hose was a metaphor. The cage thing was sarcasm. The riot might not have "spun out of control" if the police weren't containing it but not stopping it, riot control units are equipped with things designed not to kill but to subdue, I haven't seen any subduing going on, that's what I suggest they do.

Just send in a large army of riot cops and push the rioters out using water cannons, tear gas, bean bags, and all around pushing. You don't have to shoot unless they shoot first.

This is what I'm suggesting, it's totally reasonable, but when I say it I get called out for being "no better than the people causing the trouble".

What a wonderful time to take a holiday in the UK :/

We're staying at my sister in Colliers Wood near one of the riots and last night we just kept hearing sirens coming by all the time.

My sister also heard some kids earlier discussing their newfound loot.

We were at a Sainsburys earlier and they were running low on stock because the warehouses were burnt to the ground.

I just hope they get it under control soon.

We have no clue how many riot police they have at their disposal. The riots are all over the place, so if they're going to amass a large enough force in one area it'd detract from other areas of rioting, most likely making that place even worse. They'd have to do this for each separate group of rioters. Things could become even more out of control by doing what you suggest.

Too bad they can't send this lot for a two week holiday at a refugee camp in Kenya filled with hundreds of thousands of staving Somalis dispossessed by war, drought and famine.

I hope you and your family remain safe, I would hate to here directly from a fellow forum member of something tragic happening to them because of this.


But if they keep it like it is now it will escalate too, that's the dilemma.

Just intimidate the mobs with a tank. I bet they wont be so rebellious after a 120mm is fired off somewhere.

Hmm. . . That would probably work.

I can see that making things worse, a lot worse...

Show them you mean business. :toughninja:

How?

Yeah really, I wouldn't be standing around waiting to see if the guy firing that gun is having a bad day or not.