I didn't start the old topic, but thought I'd start a new one, as there isn't on yet (at the time of writing).

There are a lot of news stories to read up about this, with one being the http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14457535

For those that aren't aware, there are lots of senseless riots spreading across the UK, for many reasons, some known, some not, and most hidden behind the mascarade that it's "justice" for the http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516



Continuing from the last thread;



The same way that they have no right to be rioting/looting/burning/steeling/mugging. It doesn't take much to realise what you're doing is wrong, and it doesn't take much more to not do wrong things. By your logic everyone that was rioting/looting/thieving/burning etc. should just be let off with a slap on the wrist and a warning that "next time try not to get so drunk on power OK??". There has to be a line somewhere.

So we should kill them? No. Some of these people are jumping on the bandwagon and will realize when they're older how horrible it was what they did and they'll try to give back, it's unlikely to think not a single one of these rioters will amount to anything.

@DaNang: I know it's just your opinion, I just feel like you're a little optimistic XD Or maybe just from a better area than me...


@Whoever the hell said genocide is ebil: 1. No one mentioned GENOCIDE and 2., [censored] losers aren't a species. (EDIT:: That wasn't a swear word! [censored] isn't even considered a swear here and we invented it! XD)

Killing them is plain stupid and unrealistic. Giving any of them the benefit of the doubt, seems wrong to me though.

That isn't my logic at all. I'm merely pointing out that if the police or military start to put bullets in their heads, people who could have been rehabilitated will never get that chance and an even bigger problem will emerge. Many riots contain such individuals.

Let's give an example, say at school. Say a few students outright rebel against the teacher/professor and gain control over them. How many of the students do you think will join in the fun? A lot, often even the generally well-behaved students. The prospect of total freedom over an authority figure is alluring to more people than you might think. Some of them could be thinking oh sweet, the police can't do crap. Party time! Maybe I can go and get that TV from the store I've always wanted. Oh look, the police. I'll throw a couple objects at them for the fun of it. It's not like I'll hurt them, look at those shields!

Yes, there are people involved who have the intention of harming, or even killing authority personnel, but hey, since when was it impossible to take a non-lethal approach to an overly aggressive human being? SWAT does that all the time with great success. Gunning people down should only follow proper procedure. IE, if rioters starting attempting to kill officers and getting guns of their own.

I understand a lot of you are upset, but wanting to see loads of corpses on the street because they might kill people themselves is a horrible mindset. Don't turn a simple riot into 28 Weeks Later.

Hmm, I recall senseless riots springing up after football games, years back. Several areas started imposing curfews and checkpoints to put a lid on it.

Firstly, this isn't school. If you rebel at school, no one dies, no ones property gets burnt, no-one loots shops and actually attacks the teachers/people in charge. Secondly, I don't think people should be killed. That won't solve anything. But the people involved do need to be punished severely, and if the use of disproportionate force helps, so be it.

You can't take a peaceful approach to a very large group of overly aggressive humans. It just won't work. There needs to be a dialogue between the various parties, but before that can happen, the rioters need to be under control.

My quote isn't working right now, sorry: @Sub_tonic, have that many people suggested killing them? I only meant to say they need the frighteners puttin' on them, I didn't mean they should all die.

@Soujourner: Your avatar is godly, Koudelka is win.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised there was no mention of curfews being suggested after the second night. I guess this is what happens when half the people who can make decisions are on holiday at the same time.

I can only speak from a British point of view, no idea what the rest of the world is like, but to anyone who has a bleeding heart for these guys, it's a fact that all over this country there are people living in fear. Not of an oppressive regime, or hunger or disease, but of their neighbours. As far as British justice is concerned, if your life is being made a misery by loud, violent psychopathic idiots, then you are just expected to put up with it.

All this talk of shooting, hanging, slapping on wrists, rehabilitating, whatever, it's all about the rioters. As usual, anyone affected by their actions is forgotten. You should look at these things from the victim's point of view. If it was my house or business burning, if it were my children terrified, how important would the rioter's reasons, and potentially productive futures, be then.

BTW, looks like insurance companies have another fine excuse to increase premiums; an insignificant point, but it goes to show that this affects everyone in a small way.

All of the bleeding hearts trying to excuse the rioters are the same people who help create the environment for this to happen, and the same people who will complain when any amount of force is used to bring the riot down. Oh boohoohoo I was an innocent bystander and got hit with a rubber bullet, police brutality, wah wah wah! Once the riot act is read there are no innocent bystanders, go home or get put down.

Claiming that you got caught up in the excitement is no excuse. Like all those pathetic kids from cushy families who rioted in Vancouver, who go on the news crying crocodile tears about how they are so sorry, I didnt realize I was torching a cop car!

I agree these people are complete menace to society. I mean getting drunk and setting police cars on fire? Honestly dont you have anything productive to do?

I'm absolutely in favor of tear gas, non-lethal shotguns, tasers, batons, you name it. Maybe I should have made that more clear. They obviously need that stuff to gain control. I mean, the police can't just yell at the rioters and keep backing away from them.

Maybe, to try and separate the really dangerous individuals from the rest, the police could "mark" them upon their arrest, something that says "This person is extremely dangerous and needs more help than that unmarked Average Joe over there". It won't be 100% effective, of course, but I'm just tossing an idea out there.

I also realize my school example was flawed in that regard, but I still believe it's the best one I could have provided. :shrug:

I agree, to an extent, but there is a very real danger posed by these mobs towards innocent bystanders. I think the police presence should have their protection in mind first, and use reasonable force to stop these idiots from hurting anyone or their livelihoods.

Armed police firing off rounds into crowds? Awful idea - all it takes is one stray casualty and the situation gets exponentially worse. The rioters will arm themselves and it will escalate, and we'll have a public scared to death of not only rioters but also their own police force. The majority of the UK don't want this, because as a nation we are policed by consent, not fear and force.

However...

I worked in the prison system for a few years (specifically a YOI, which is where most of this lot should end up soon), and while the rehabilitation systems do actually work quite well for those offenders who realise it is in their interests to take it, there is nothing in our justice system to act as a deterrent to those who don't.

:laugh: This little argument was just a misunderstanding, it seems. I guess I gave the impression that I wanted everyone to be treated to slapping and a firm talking-to, when in reality, I wholeheartedly agree that every single person rioting right now, regardless of their true intentions or their level of aggression, should be treated to the same level of non-lethal force as would be required for an extremely dangerous person. You can't take chances like that, obviously. My apologies for not being clear on that one point.

Also, I still like my marking idea.

Of course any mention of YOI immediately brings to mind the Borstals, in particular the charming film Scum. OT, I'm reminded of my then four-year-old cousin being encouraged by my uncle to answer any questions about which school he was going to with the proud exclamation "Borstal!" :laugh:

I think rehabilitation rather than revenge is the way for those who can be rehabilitated, but unfortunately there are those who I'm fairly convinced are "born bad" and who are a much more gnarly problem. You encounter them in all walks of life and their behaviour seems to be entirely independent of upbringing, family or fortune.

Im loving all these people defending them. Its becuase society refuses to disipline people [censored] like this happens. I cant wait till most of the brainwashed people can vote. No wonder I want to leave this country and live somewhere where I can own a gun. People are eager to send society to hell. We could stop this problem "oh nooo the police stopping violent thugs are evil". Jesus christ what do people want then ? The police are damned if they stop them becuase its too "brutal" and the police are damned becuase they "cant contain the problem". [censored] hell people are whiney [censored]es. Do you want thugs looting and burning [censored] or not ?

When you go on about thier rights how about thinking of the rights of the people they [censored] over ? Burning down businesses, cars, looting, mugging people, attacking them, etc. The idea innocents are getting hurt and all people can think about is protoecting the thugs, it makes me wish a huge asteroid would just kill everything on earth, it will save me having to watch society act so [censored] stupid. Seriously, how did people get this [censored] stupid where criminals are to be protected from the law ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

Showing "the rich", eh? I dunno, whilst people in general might have some grievance against the banksters, destroying family-run businesses that people have poured their heart and soul into, sometimes for generations, is just heartbreaking. I wonder what this lot have ever contributed to society?

Just read that Mark Duggan, whose shooting started this thing off, probably didn't open fire on the police: but he was armed and considered dangerous and may well have drawn his weapon, so unless there's any compelling evidence to the contrary, it would appear that in shooting him first, the police did the right thing.

The girls sound like spoiled brats. I found http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065 even more outrageous.

Someone wasnt hit enough as a child. Another [censored] said "they respect us and we will respect them". They are idiots, who likely just sponge of society, will never amount to anything, and are a burden on us all. The jobs argument dosent hold water, considering they destroy jobs by rioting. Idiots shouldnt be allowed to breed.

Nothing most likely. Its a shame we have to keep them in our country, they seem like they would jsut hold us back. If only we had some Australia 2.0 we could send them too.

Yep.

I think that'll be one of the lingering images of the riots, and shows many of the rioters for what they really are. Absolutely disgusting.

That on bothered me a lot too. I wouldn't want to see the guy who stole from him shot and killed, however I wouldn't mind seeing him tear gassed and beaten.

Even if he was shot out of hand, the riots are still a massively disproportionate response.

Statements like this have no place on these forums and make those who post no better than the people causing the troubles. No more like this please, discuss the riots and the effects they are having on the general public who get caught up in them and suffer because of them, do not hand out summary justice.