I wanted the Dunmer to enslave the Nords when they came to Skyrim.

This is something that bothers me about Ulfric's cause in Skyrim. While I can't stand the Thalmor, and Ulfric wanting to fight back against religious discrimination and preserve his homeland and culture seems pretty noble at face value, the whole 'Skyrim for the Nords!' thing falls pretty flat when you find out that Ulfric was the one to charge into the Reach and drive out the natives there so Nords could have Markarth (and weren't Orcs in Skyrim before the Nords, I could swear I read that in-game?).
And now he's complaining about the Empire charging in and taking over his land - isn't that precisely what he did to the Forsworn?
I actually wish there was some way to address that or bring it up with the Stormcloaks ingame to see what they'd have to say about it.

What everybody seems to forget is that the Dunmer abolished slavery in Oblivion, so hating on them for it is like hating on just about all of Europe and North America for slavery.

No the definition of racism is a hatred of other races, I have no such hatred..

What reason could I have for wanting to preserve my own race and culture ? Conservation ?? The same reason humans put other endangered animals in zoo's and try to get them to breed with each other..

Yes effectively it is a ticking timebomb. As I've said look at the demographic predictions for European countries. In most of them Islam will be the majority religion in 50 years time. In most of them non-Europeans will be a miniority in their own homeland. Is that right ? I don't think so. I like our practices, I love my people and what we've done throughout history, I view Europe as a very special continent (as I'm sure Africans view Africa etc. etc.), I don't want to see it's practices swept aside in the future.

I liked helping the Argonians & Khajit slaves in Morrowind escape, if my characters alingment was so inclined of course. So i agree, it would had been interesting to have that again.

You're allowed to think your form of racism is ok (I think it's disgusting and sick, but it's your right to think whatever crazy nonsense you want), but it's still racism and you got to call it by it's proper name. You are operating on a system that gives races different rights, assigns so-called homelands that should belong to a certain race primarily, etc. If you think race if a factor(or should be a factor) in anything - you are racist. It's as simple as that. Of course one is perfectly free to argue that certain types of racism isn't immoral, and maybe some forms aren't, but that's beyond the point.

And what is this ridiculous preservation nonsense you're babbling about? Why should this count for civilized people who can think and use logic. Preserving "your own race" is a ridiculous term, the human race will preserve itself with "interbreeding" as well ... You're ideas are completely [censored] up. Just why? Why? What's the logical basis of maintaining a race? And if the only way you can do this is with dictatorship and segregation it should be pretty clear that this "preservation" is just plain evil, no?

And Islam is a religion, not a race ... Culture and religion has nothing to do with race. There are plenty of white muslims and plenty of middle-eastern christians and atheist. This is my point about your racism, you don't believe that people who do not share the same heritage as most of the country they belong to will have a different culture than them and that's just BS, it has no connection with reality. When people are integrated into a country (if the "integration" is done without segregation mind you) the new residents will usually take part of the culture and their children again is likely to be exactly like "everyone else" on a broad basis. Also, in 50-100 I think it's far more logical that most people in Europe will be atheist, regardless of heritage.

Anyways, I'm done with this convo. You got some pretty disturbing ideas about humanity and I don't think any kind of logic can get through to you.

My point on Islam was more cultural/societal rather than racial. I just thought that was obvious so I didn't bother mentioning it. As I said it isn't just an ethnic dilution it's a cultural dilution as well. I don't think people should be forced into this, I just think it's a pretty valid point, if in a democratic country people choose to preserve their own culture and race through limiting immigration (non-natives who already live here are perfectly entitled to continue doing so and will face absolutely no discrimination of any kind, well unless it's from civilians which happens at the moment anyway and would be punishable by law as it is now)..

Are you denying specific species of human exist ? That's like denying there's different species of dog.. There are clear physical differences between racial groups, even in Europe northerners are different ethnically to those in the South of the continent.

I would like to see my own race preserved, I don't want them to be diluted into some bland, multi-racial/cultural melting pot of people. The only thing that holds societies like that together is the pursuit of wealth, when the wealth goes what's to stop them descending into bitter ethnic clashes and infighting ???

Let's stick to things as they apply in the game, not comparing with real life races and religions. Thanks.

Probably a good idea, I'll make sure to do so from now on.

Exactly. The Lizard and Hairball lovers seem to forget that little fact.

Very easily, thank you for asking.


You may be the oldest race (I haven't checked the Lore in a bit, but I think the Aldmer and the Khajiit would dispute your claim), but you are far from the strongest. Hence the history of being enslaved. And our Overseer's seemed to handle Black Marsh territory just fine. That's what the Restoration School is for. And do you really want to tangle with the Legendary Destruction Mages of the Dunmer forces? Or our elite swordsmen? It didn't work out so well for any other time before, you had to wait for an asteroid and the largest volcano in Tamriel to erupt, in our homeland, before you could act.


It's not that we can't lift cutlery or that we'd strain something. The simple fact is that doing such... menial things would be very far below the perfection that we Dunmer have achieved. It would be beneath us, so we have out slaves do it.


Actually, our beloved Vvardenfell is a smoking crater right now due to a sizable asteroid. We are currently rebuilding on Solstheim (according to the Lore), and go ahead and try a second time. We're stronger now than we were when you carrion lizards stole your weak, cheap rampage across lands you couldn't even keep a hold of; and I've never heard of a race in Tamriel that was willing to risk a second round of enforced slavery upon themselves... but I guess it's possible.

So bring it on. Morrowind will probably secede from the Empire due to their lack of help during our time of need, and we the beloved Dunmer will be back with a vengeance not yet seen in its ferocity in all of Tamriel!

You Dunmers infuriate me!

We are the oldest and most powerful race on all of Tamriel. The Hist came to be when there was no sight of the other races and we came with the Hist.

You can't invade Black Marsh. The Empire in it's full glory couldn't invade Black Marsh. Dremora couldn't invade Black Marsh. Even if Dagoth Ur, Mehrunes Dagon and Alduin would be resurrected by some foul black-magic and teamed up, even they couldn't invade Black Marsh. The Hist are protecting us and we are protecting the Hist. No broody, ashen skinned, Guar riding elf touches the Hist and lives.

Also, we have beat you to the punch again. Black Marsh seceded from the Empire a long, long time ago while those silver-tongued Imperials were still controlling other regions. Like Vvardenfell. Whoops. I bet it svcked to be the Septim's lapdogs. My condolences.

As for the slavery... Only those with no understanding of the world and life would do it. The weak willed and the stupid. See how it came around and nipped you in the bud? And even while extracting revenge, we have been merciful. Just take a look at Brand-Shei. His father and his whole family were staunch supporters of slavery, abusing and killing our brothers and sisters. Yet, our kind took in the child and raised him as we would our own. You Dunmers didn't and would never show the same mercy the other way around. Tsk-tsk. Bad Dunmer, bad.

If it's the only way to get them to do anything productive.

Dunmer live for 300+ years, some of the Dunmer in Windhelm may have owned slaves in the past.

You forget something, Argonian. Your kind also did quite a bit of slave trade of your own kind. Now, I'm sure us Khajiit did the same, but at least we didn't sell off our kittens. Even if half of my land is being defiled by the high elves... Yeah, Khajiit not really able to say much now due to need to do foolish rant. The Outmer will get some claws in their face when they foolishly have a break down and scream how much they really hate us and just wish to use us.

I think you underestimate the dunmer. "They are known to be extremely strong, intelligent, and very quick"-from the wiki. I think the dark elves would have been able to hold their own against the nords if they tried to enslave them.

You mean your Cthuloid mind masters. The Hist are the masters not bretheren

Nope. We co-exist with them in a symbiosis. That's even mentioned in some books. The Hist protects us and we protect the Hist.

No they wouldn't. They have no army, their numbers have been severely depleted.. They couldn't even fend off an Argonian invasion of Morrowind after the Red Mountain erupted, how are they going to stop the Nords from enslaving them if they chose to do so ?

Strange. In Gutslit's studies most of the Argonians have been the intelligent Hist kind. At least outside of their homeland. Maybe there's an Argonian who knows what the history of this hist is.

your legendary mages/warriors are mostly dead and gone same goes for the tribunal cept for vivec whos missing atm and is a farcry of what he once was.

Those scum were no true Argonians. Justice is served and we hunt down each and every one of those traitors who would sell their own into slavery. They lost the support of the all-knowing Hist and became fugitive in their own homeland. Slavers are no scale-brethren, they're even a bigger enemy than the Dunmers. Also, no need to be hostile with us.

We, the obviously superior beast-folk should form an alliance and wipe the floor with both the Dunmers and the Altmers. The former for enslaving our kind both, the latter for defiling the kitty people's sacred land and wanting to burn down the scaly people's Hist. Maybe we could even raid Bosmers for plundering kitty territory. Honestly, Orcs are the only decent elven kind.

It has been a debate for centuries actually. No one truly knows and Argonians are no fools to share all of their precious secrets. I can tell you that much that the Hist are sentinent beings and we are both the children and brethren of them at once as not even the elders know if the first Argonians have evolved from the Hist or had born into the world from their very trunk.

Hmmm... Gutslit isn't exactly the type to join wars. But, it'd be nice to see some burnt Thalmor. Wonder if their hair could make good decorations.