First look at the characters.

That could probably sum up an entire argument. But the valiant defenders will still contest.
Look at free-winter. He isn't the only anti racist nord. But his entire personality is based on anti racism
Look at Nazeem.
Look at the woman of war maiden's . "i am not as good as eurland. give me a chance" That's about as good as burger king advertising that they aren't as good as Mcdonalds.
Look at mercer. He has an evil sounding voice. Brnyjolf sounds friendly. one of these is a protagonist. guess?
Look at guards.
Look at Babett. Does she shut up about being a vampire? I understand that she's a child but she is also 300 years old and should probably grow the [censored] up.
Look at alduin in contrast to other dragons. He is black and spikey and has glowing red eyes. Scared yet? Meanwhile the friendly dragon has nice blue eyes.

It's like bethesda were horrified that we might get confused if characters possessed more than a single trait!! (or perhaps bethesda were confused with putting in more than a single trait) Don't get me entirely wrong here- i found depth in two Jarls, a murderer and a necrophile.


secondly we have the various changes to lore made for skyrim

Werebears and werewolves- Nup, No werebears. Werewolves are simply something you can turn into whenever you want for only a tiny consequence.
Alduin being an aspect of akatosh and is the literal world eater? Nup-Black dragon
Get to meet Ysmir and a bunch of other nord legends- Can't talk to any of them.
Technological dwemer who live in metal colonies and are staunch supporters of science and logic?- Nup, stone ruins for the tokien fans.
Mysterious snow elves - [censored] it, we need a goblin race.
Winterhold the capital- Screw it! it fell into the sea (and some houses exploded too. But also there is no debris at the bottom and jarl's hall is coincidently in the good part) What a fantasticaly awful excuse to not make a bunch of houses and a wall. It makes me wonder if they also had plans to remove other cities which they didn't have many ideas for use.
Interesting clan of monsterous ice vampires who live within the frozen lakes of skyrim, away from the lands of men? Of course not! guys in robes who hang out in caves with a drain spell! Yes, dawnguard is fixing this issue to some extent- Now these ice vampires will be orange eyed people in castles who can transform into cool looking monsters with useless wings at will and control bats which were previously unassociated with Tes vampires!!


I am not even going to make an argument against faction quest lines. The Civil war is simply You on a fort hopping campaign. The Factions have more giant faults in them than the earth's crust and they constantly draw me out of the game and into the nitpicking "Why the **** didn't you do this" or "why can't i just do this?" But WHY am i the chosen one for EVERY faction? Does bethesda have some kind of fear of not putting you in the limelight in case you start to think that you are worthless and have suicidal thoughts manifest within you? You are seen in a dream , told that only you can save the world , Told that only you can rule the group , told that half the guild feels that you will bring a change to them, told that you are dovakhin , expected to do the work of a dozen soldiers...


Not to mention gameplay ideas

Being inspired by bioshock when it comes to spells. We probably expected physics destruction spells and cool illusions. Instead We got a bounce in lightning,Weak sprays, Blizzard and No spell-making. All schools of magic are the weakest they have ever been.
Found acrobatics useless - Could have Upgraded acrobatics to Envolve climbing and Vaulting and stuff related. Instead it was removed.
Liked fallout's perks - assumed that we needed an expansive perk system 10 times more complex. The value of Skill level went down in favour of perks that offer 20% improvements and Players needed to get a perk for things like dual casting and impact and dual enchantments. Leading to some perk trees being absurdly powerful (enchanting) and some Completely Unused (lockpicking)
Attributes use numbers- REMOVE THEM BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW NUMBERS. (Attributes were the key to balanced enchanting, Meaningful character differences and logical effects. )
Didn't like social gameplay in past games? REMOVE IT!!


There probably is someone smart in bethesda - Daedric quests were much more natural and a minority of books are worthy additions . I think bethesda needs to hire more "thinkers" Someone has to try.

Well, Beth's people themselves have said they make their games completely different (or something to that extent). That's why the reinventing instead of refining

And they could use some some better writers, for sure.

Better? That even assumes that they have competent writers to start off with.

TBH, I'm not sure what Bethesda was thinking when they dreamed up Skyrim, but it sure as hell fell flat. Not enough choices and consequences. Guild quests are choppy. They feel like huge chunks were cut prior to release, and yes, the writing is horrible...even by Beths already low standards.

Seems to me that Todd and company have been more interested in cutting, rather than improving and tweaking. They had a good thing going, and have trampled all over it for a few dollars more. They have catered to the type of gamer that played it for a few weeks or a month, and haven't touched it since December...meanwhile, the rest of us that would still be playing it for the next few years (until FO3 or TES 6 comes out) get the short end of the stick...again.

Sorry if this seems a little harsh, and that I think Skyrim svcks, I don't think it svcks, I think it's a great game on it's own merits, but as an Elder Scrolls game it is subpar.

Amen OP, amen.

Wow that is a really long rant, I think a lot of Skyrim really was intended to be less mature/advlt/darker tone oriented like some of the previous games. Stuff like marriage and children was added to make the game more cute-sy (if cutesy is a word I heard Bill Gates use it once.) To me that kind of explains a lot of how the stuff is and why the game play in my opinion is kind of like FallOut and Fable got married had a child and named it Skyrim.
I'm not trying to knock it, I just think the series is taking a step back from the more 'mature' content so I don't think it's undeveloped.

Yeah Bethesda should really start focusing on that stuff more. It's kinda annoying now that you mention it...


This has nothing to do with maturity, and Skyrim is not "cutesy" and has nothing to do with Fable, and marriage is just another option for Roleplaying, not some crappy kids flash game. Sorry if I sounded too angry btw

Ummm... boo hoo...: sadface:

You're unhappy,we get it.

You found an eff load of flaws in the game, we get it.

What we don't get is, if you dislike the game and the changes that were made so much then why in the hell are you even still playing? Go play COD or something, cause everyone knows that game isn't the same as the last one that was released six months ago.

Hello jack254. Good to see you. How have you been doing?

Why do you feel you have to pass judgment on the devs instead of the game? Would it not have been plainer and more verifiable to just say "Skyrim is underdeveloped creatively". That much I could certainly agree with. Being judgmental about people you really have no acquaintance with - I'm assuming - tends to distract from the otherwise noble action of pointing out Skyrim's shortcomings. You don't need to do that to get your point across. Your point can withstand the absence of that kind of remarks.

Nothing says class like a thread who's title suggests that the staff at Bethesda Softworks might be Special Needs cases.

Hmm. You make some valid points.

Hand-holding and pandering to the lowest common denominator tends to have that kind of effect.

Hey you took a lot of those points from my old posts!

A mile wide, a foot Deep. So much there that could have been and isnt.

I hope in the next set of DLC's and subsequently the next TES installment They aren't under pressure and can come up with some nice Meat to the story and events in the game.

To be honest, most of this has been talked about in lore since the begining. It's not like they added it in last minute.

IF there's a next game...
With the MMO on the horizon, I'm a little scared what's going to happen to the Single Player games.

im really not sure how to not be mean, but that was the stupidest thing ive ever heard

Marriage is not cute-sy, its a terricle, terricle thing. Stay single

However the Marriage only gives you 2 extra perks, seriously, its not like they spent half their resources to make it. You cant even divorce or re marry once your spouse dies. Its garbage. I just love how marriage in skyrim is why the writers are terrible, not because of the possible lore breaking things that the OP suggested

Well said my man, well said

i highly doubt anything will happen, at worst ES6 will have a side quest or two that tie into Elder scrolls Online.

The Tallest, hello there.


Just who is "we"? You keep writing in the first-person plural. Whom do you represent?

Batman, obviously.

While I'd love for the Circle of Bethesda to have an influx of coin to make the next game better than sliced bread ever has been, I've a sneaking feeling that thing is gonna tank, sorry nothing about it to me has relayed anything more than. "we're another group who thinks that if we do what Wow does but with OUR Ip instead it will be totally successful" again no offense to the devs working on TESO, but its just another case of facepalm to me.

And because this of course is typed by me and no one else its instantly an opinion and does not require a disclaimer isclaimer:

I'm skeptical at best, but time will tell.
At the best, another jump in Era, alas, the Fourth Era would only get one game, while the first four were all of the same Era.

why? with the success of skyrim they'll obviously carry on the series. also the mmo is being developed by a different developer and bethesda has stated a number of times that they'll stick to single player games

I'm still scared, I mean, usually when a game introduces multiplayer, even if there is no effect on the single player for that specific game, the SP tends to get neglected in the future