Yeah we're trailing into other topics. come back to DIALOG options, I.E doing things differently and actually getting detail than referring to an omniscient intangible map >

Dude you JUST got done talking about Daedric quests (off-topic) and now you're gonna give me crap for going off-topic.

Everybody just calm your [censored] and let's have the discussion without the petty insults, accusations and hypocrisy, how about? No reason to get worked up over it...

You're just going to twist everyone's words, and nitpick arguments, until you've successfully bored everyone into thinking you're right?

Fallout 3 had shallow dialogue, Oblivion was the same way and Morrowind was hardly any better. Your surprised why?

Yes, Ok. So we agree.

However, I also hold that this is typical of TES. The only major questline that I can ever think of having a split resolution was maybe the Morrowind mages guild.
All the other Main Quests and Faction Quests all went in the same direction, regardless of which option you pick.

So actually, I think we all agree on some basic points here. Let's catch up with each other:

• Main TES Quests and Faction Quests almost never have outcome splits.
  
• Some minority of TES quests do have outcome splits, but a small portion.
  
• Many TES quests have dialogue splits, but no outcome split.

Alright, everyone agree here?
Three separate issues. We should strive to keep them all straight.


Um, no.
I mentioned the Daedric quests as examples of quests with split outcomes.
...Which is what this thread is about.

Sorry.

well...you know...5 years....you'd expect improvement right? did I miss the memo where they get a waiver, or Badge of honor to not do sot hot in writing?

inb4theymadeagiantworldsoitsixpectedforstorytosuffer

I'm pretty sure World makers need a Story in place before they make the world?

Not really sure what your gettin at, but since you said one for skyrim, ill say one for morrowind.
And in Morrowind you can you can pick between 3 Great Houses to join, and there is consequence of either action...

I sadly have to agree, it's very dissapointing for me.

I would actually argue Fallout 3's dialog is far better than Skyrim's.

I remember when I first played Fallout 3, I thought the dialog was much better than Oblivion's. Oblivion offered basically confrim/deny responses whereas Fallout 3 offered good/neutral/evil karma responses. The NPCs thereby also typically had more dialog, cause they had to be able to respond to three different kinds of people.

Hence why Skyrim feels so disappointing. They've gone back several generations, dialog-wise. Hell, even Oblivion and Fallout 3 seemed to offer more choice in quests. Oblivion always gave you the same result (few exceptions) but at least bothered to offer you different ways to complete a quest. (Dark Brotherhood for example) Fallout 3 was the same, offering good/neutral/evil paths most of the time.

dark brotherhood wasn't really a different way to do things in the sense you're implying. it's basically just a choice between the lazy path and the hard but rewarding path

Your write they don't get off easy but It's something I've grown to expect in Bethesda games. Nor do I play their games for their amazing stories and in-depth dialogue.

Same for me. Like i expect to need to use balance and UI overhaul mods in them too

That's kind of the point, Donner. Daggerfall's text parser wasn't bad for the time, and the worldsize. That was 1996. It's 2012 and -things have not changed one iota-. Except that instead of a text parser that can at least be hacked into to add options, we have vocal just about everything, that can not be changed without studio resources and a lot of people willing to try and voice act. They keep saying they start from scratch for each game, but so far they haven't really made any steps forward, at least as far as scripts, text or PC-NPC interaction, quest branching, etc. The bling and the graphics, sure. But those have never been the meat of CPRG's. Story is. And you and I have been here long enough to see how many 1 step forward/3-5 steps back they have made over the years and the releases.

Granted, the level designers have done a magnificent job, for the most part (Blackreach and the attached other dungeons, Sarthal, etc). But the Radiant Quest system was either crippled, or it needs some serious tuning; it makes the DF parser look =good=. This was supposed to be the End of the World......and there was no indication of it. No threat. No worry at all from the NPCs. Not so much as lighting changes in the environment to creep you out, make you feel like there -is- trouble. For all the threat that Alduin and the dragons have proven to be, you could just as easily have a starling infestation and get the same danger level.

Hopefully the next generation of console will have at least the illusion of cojones and a couple of gigs of ram to be played with. At least that factor would be improved

didn't read a single post, i'm responding to the title of the thread only.


slap to the face? really, you gotta be kidding me. Go back and play any previous elder scroll game and the dialogue options in skyrim are at least the equivalent of the entire series.

I'd say it's even a big improvement on say....morrowinds where you click on a a few highlighted words and read the response. go play mass effect if you want a dialogue wheel with different options of things to say.

This is not to say that I wouldn't enjoy a better dialouge options, it is merely to say that this is in no way a slap to the face of fans of the series, because it has really never been a part of the series.

Morrowind I could say no. you could piss people so bad they wanted to kill ya. You either had to make certain people happy or trust ya to give certain items or quests, or piss them off so bad that u didnt get the quest.

Skyrim u cannot say no to stop a quest or reject it. No matter what ir dispostion they gonna asky for help.

you can do that in skyrim too. for me (xbox) it means hitting the B button to back out of the conversation rather than choosing the accept quest dialouge

...you didn't just say Skyrim's scripting and PC-NPC interaction is on the same level as Morrowind... did you?

well what do you do different with NPC's? they still talk, they still give jobs, they still train you the same way they did 10 years ago? the interactions are the same for the genre..nothing different really aside from the omission of free form Persuasion ;p

You can befriend them to where they'll give you free access to some of their stuff. You can train by actually doing work (see Alvor and ask to use the forge; Faregnar walks you through Enchanting too, IIRC). You can trespass on them to where they'll warn you before calling the guards. Guards will actually follow you through doors.

This. All of these things have been added - the only difference is that we can't hear the same rumor from every NPC in town.

twas an honest question really. and you know FULL WELL the Forge/Enchanting quest (YES QUEST) can be done with any NPC that is a Smith/wizard near a arcane enchanter ONCE . And you cheated with the Guards, and you know it

you would think the makers of the 2006, 2008 and 20011 games of the year would hire better story writers...

They walk around.
They go to sleep.
They have random time-killing activities like cooking, eating, and using objects in the world.
Their disposition changes based on your actions, and not some hokey mini-game or "bribe."
They track where you've been, and assign their quests to places you haven't.
They talk to each other (sorta).
They recognize when the player drops an item, and can even tell what it is.
They will even escort you to a quest location (sometimes lead, sometimes follow).

New Vegas forces you to go south, then loop around the east before getting to vegas. Unless you are bat[censored] crazy and extremely lucky, you will NOT make it past the deathclaws. So while the option to go north is there, the game railroads you south if you want to progress in the main story.

With Skyrim, you can go any way you want regardless of level and progress of the story. The dialoge os purly optional. You are not required to follow what people say, but if you do, you can't complain about where the story goes, because its just that, a story. One you are perfectly able to put down at any time no matter what.

I mean ffs people if you think I don't realize NPC;s can walk up and down or sleep or have schedules or do these things that they didn't in Morrowindyou're really not reading the question right...like really lol