It is possible to have an open-world game with decent dialogue and quests though.

I know it's possible, look at morrowind, but i wasn't saying it was impossible to begin with. was merely comparing the writing between skyrim and The Witcher 2 as stated in a previous post.

That would actually be more to the point and at least more relevant.
However there were just as many complaint about Morrowind's dialogue - I refer you to the Nostalgia Effect.

I did not know that, i wasn't on the forums at that time. kind of leaves me with no other options now. hmm oh well hopefully the writing will improve with the next TES game.

What is it with people and their rampant claims of nostalgia? I played Morrowind two days ago.

PhonAntiPhon is right. When I joined the forums Daggerfall players loathed Morrowind, because of its lack of dialog. Morrowind was not even an RPG, they said. It was a shallow action/RPG. Bethesda streamlined and simplified the Elder Scrolls series when they made Morrowind, they said. They claimed that with Morrowind Bethesda put all their effort into flashy graphics to draw in the console generation.

The negativity against Morrowind's lack of dialog (and a host of other features that were missing from previous games) was so unrelenting and so harsh that I couldn't stand to be here after awhile. It was far worse than the backlash against Skyrim we see today. A few weeks after I joined I stopped coming here because it was ruining my enjoyment of Morrowind.

It's possible...New Vegas.

least we got directions in morrowind, but comparing a seris to itself is not really going to do or say much. in new vegas (this is like apples vs. fruit, perfectly acceptable to compare flavor) you had a choce of how to do most quests in the game and dialog at least made sense while being believable, most people loved that yet bethesda seems to have totally ignored what made new vegas one of the best games out there and we are stuck living in a playing world (although that world looks utterly fantastic).

off-topic: its sad to technically be part of the group who always gets blamed for the dunming down of TES (console gamer/teen)

Agree.

I sorta anticipated that and have only planned on doing one, maybe two playthroughs. One as pure warrior doing the good guy Dragonborn thing, Companions etc, and then one as bad guy doing the Thieves, DB and magic stuff and ignore the main quest. I won't be doing the same thing twice, cause it's exactly that. The same thing. Superficial is being generous.

Yeah, it's pitiful that it's even really considered any more of an RPG than the likes of Diablo, really.

I don't want to really get into semantics over what an RPG is and is not, but it's as much of a first person hack and slash as Diablo is an isometric hack and slash.

They're removing and culling back all of the things I figured would have progressed with this game with each installment and merely changing most of the things that were already working.

Alright, New Vegas is way to overhyped.

Sure the game has many dialog options, but it doesnt surpass Mass Effect 1 and 2, or Dragon Age Origins. Every other aspect in the game is great, but not superb.

I have saved the lives of two NPCs so far by electing not to kill them. Sounds like a meaningful choice to me.

I agree that there aren't widely branching dialogue trees in Skyrim, however, Morrowind never had very much choice either. They had lots of written text to read, which was nice in a way, but it was also unrealistic.

When's the last time you spat out a paragraph when someone asked you about something?

Even worse, when in history has anyone ever said something to the effect of:
"In order to obtain this mystical sword, you must first take the Silt Strider to Seyda Neen. After arriving, you must walk through the marshes, passing the Delano Ancestral Tomb, and crossing the fjord. After that, look east, and pass between the two mountains that look like the humps of a Guar. Once there, enter the ruin. Be wary, traveler, as many vile things inhabit that ruin."

That's just stupid. If you want someone to go get something for you, you say:

"Hey, lemme see your map for a second. Yea, it's right about here. It's a big, red sword. You can't miss it. Thanks man."

Skyrim is more natural.

I remember that. Ticked me the [censored] off and got me frustrated when I was 14 cause I didn't know what a fjord is.
And that's what made it fun.

Yes you can choose for people to die or not. To bad there is no consequences regarding those decisions. It's pretty meaningless otherwise.

Morrowind may not have had that much choice in your opinion, but atleast it did offer it. You can't deny this.

And are you regarding ''something'' as something simple? Asking a persons trade or background gave you pretty basic information and not a paragraph. If asking about the empire, nerevarine or anything else important they would indeed give you a paragraph or more and I don't see the harm in that. Because it is after all important and you did ask for it. It's way better then nothing or a simple: You are dragonborn go save the world because you must

And about the quest description. There is nothing natural about some random guy giving you the exact marked location for a mythical legendary sword. Giving directions is natural, it is certainly more realistic. As if everybody knows the exact location of a dungeon let alone a mythical sword

To anyone who suggested Daggerfall had good dialogue - it had good plot, but your options in dialogue were ALL Yes or No. Topics led nowhere, the only significant dialogue was with quest NPCs. There was a third type of dialogue that required you to type a certain word, but again it only accepted one word.

Morrowind's dialogue wasn't much better. Outside of quests, most NPCs lacked any character at all, instead, they gave detailed answers about everything. That every other NPC in town/of their class/of their faction knew. Inside quests, most of the time you were told "Go get this thing/kill that guy" *Yes/No* occasionally no meant never, but 90% of the time it meant later. In terms of options within quests, often all they did was spare you of a fight (assuming the NPC didn't just attack you as most did) or you could press bribe 1000 gold to instantly win a better prize. The quests were mostly tedious, with good plotlines behind them but not memorable in and of themselves.

Morrowind was an excellent game which probably on the whole had better writing than any other TES game with the possible exception of DF's main quest. However, to say few dialogue options is a slap in the face, is (in my opinion) too far as TES games never had decent options to begin with. This has always been a criticism of the series, unfortunately.

wrong post

LOLWAT

Ok dude picture this.

You're driving down the road, you pull over cause you're lost so you ask for directions. You show a guy your map and you say "I'm lost, where's Skagway?"
He then proceeds to point at your map, pointing at the big letters on it that read "Skagway," then he says "it's there."

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING.

You would lose your [censored], either screaming at him for his stupidity or laughing at him.

True. When the op was talking about NPCs giving directions in Morrowind, the only reason why the NPC had say all of that was 1) There were no quest or location markers(which I miss). 2) All of the dialogue was text based; so they had to give specific directions.

Agreed with the OP, from the Imperial Cult, MQ, Tribunal etc etc. the Game offered More choices than what is present in Skyrim. if you want to say there wasn't that much choice to begin with. Well thank you for proving my point because Skyrim's hovering around 0

Example, Imperial Cult? has you doing a mission for the widow of a Soldier. through the quest you find lies and deception. your options over the course of the quest range from Retribution, Paying off, or seeking justice for the Party in question DEPENDING ON HOW FAR YOU'RE WILLING TO GO.

Skyrim offers no such outlet I'm afraid.

They have longer scripts and the plotlines are much more robust. However, it is loaded with cheesy humor. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's an entirely different game than Skyrim... thus, I don't understand the constant comparisons.

Edit: And the dialogue interface was a pain in the butt, especially when you wanted to just exit out of a conversation. In Skyrim, you can just click a button and walk away... which I love.

Quest-Giver: you'll need to go to X. *marks on player's map*
Player: ZOMG NO! Don't you understand! I dont want to use my map, you have to tell me EXACTLY where to go!

I'd rather mark a dungeon on someone's map than give them a long-winded explanation of how to get to the other side of the province. It's not all about 'magical arrows' - they're just a useful tool. It's still there, marked on your map by the quest giver. Why not use it?

And it's not like no NPC gives you directions at all. There are plenty of NPCs give you directions - if you ask for them, or listen closely to the dialogue. A good example is Farengar Secret-Fire - he tells you how to get from Whiterun to Bleak Falls Barrow. It's just that NPCs these days AREN'T walking, talking encyclopedias.

There are advantages and disadvantages to making the hybrid text-based dialogue. I don't know where I fall on that. I loved it in Morrowind for sure, but I've been OK without it in Skyrim.

Well, the dialog is not that bad. The real problem is the lack of choice and branching dialog, where the player gets to actually give character to the ... uh ... character.

If you recall, the vast majority of Morrowind dialog was asking information on some area, location or person. And the vast majority of that was duplicated from NPC to NPC. The player almost never got to say anything.

No, it isn't. First, your example doesn't make sense to me. If you are lost, it isn't because you don't know where your destination is. If you have a map, and the map shows you where Skagway is, then follow the map. The fact that you are lost and asking for directions means that you don't know where you are. It has nothing to do with knowing your destination.

And, in fact, you are wrong. I have been on many road trips, long before GPS was popular. I can't tell you how many gas stations I've walked into and tried to ask for directions, only to be greeted by a confused jumble of "this way I think... I'm not really sure. Here, let me see your map. Ok, you are here. Get on this road and you'll be fine."

Once you have a map and you know where YOU are and you know where you are GOING, then you should be fine.
This mythology that everyone somehow memorizes the entire path between two points is nonsensical.

That's not how people navigate.

Dialogue options have never been a significant part of TES, it's true. However, in this modern day of gaming we expect more from game producers. Especially Bethesda since they have essentially been making the same game over and over again for 16 years. The fact that they still haven't grasped the idea of branching questlines is astounding. The Skyrim team was much larger than the Morrowind dev team. Where's all that new talent being used?

And regardless of Morrowind's lack of choice, you did get descriptive directions and quest information. Something Oblivion and Skyrim are devoid of. Morrowind and Oblivion also had plenty of interesting characters, something Skyrim is largely devoid of. None of these three games have had great non-quest giver dialogue.