not being able to climb a wall or go that particular direction is not even close to the 'hand holding' that the quest markers and lack of adequate directions/ journal and lack of proper hud options and ridiculously easy puzzles and p0or writing and lack of the need to deeply think about pretty much anything in the game, provide.

like i said, if i concede the argument, which i don't, you gain nothing.

it's a futile point of view.

imo.

you were responding to me? im not getting what your saying, sorry

I like the idea but it would never happen.

I agree. I take far greater exception to railroaded quests and lack of character choices than something as trivial as not being able to go wherever, whenever you want.

Can't join daedra hunters
Can't join town guard
Can't destroy theives guild
Can't join silver hand
Can't route out the corrupt Silverbloods
Can't route out the corrupt Black-Briars
Can't join Alduin
Can't destroy companions
Can't destroy Winterhold
Can't side with Thalmor
Can't destroy both Stormcloaks and Imperials

etc

The invisible walls were an annoyance at times but do not deserve the sheer amount of drama & vitriol being written about them, Comparing NV to COD or accusing said walls of being a gamebreaker is just being a little dramatic in my humble opinion.
Plus, You could go anywhere in NV if you were careful although it was a challenge, Being able to stride wherever you want at low risk should not be possible in any open world enviroment, Players do not have the divine right to walk anywhere in safety although they constantly claim that they do, I hate to use this god awful phrase but that's just entitlement;)

Played an ungodly amount of NV, The invisible walls were not in my top 10 of annoyances, The ***king Deathclaws & Cazadors were though.

didn't read yours. plebeian and kiralyn.

having just read yours. i agree that true railroading isn't needed in tes or rpg's.

an invisible wall is NOT EVEN CLOSE to actual railroading that a game dictates.

freakin exactly!

THAT stuff is terrible in rpg's. not some useless invisible wall argument.

k sorry thanks for reply

The prupose for Invisible walls (well what it purpose should be) is to;

A: help players not glitch somwehere, or fall to his doom
b: be put so a player doesn't simply waste his time going to a useless peice of land

it's funny you bring up the 'fall to his doom' aspect.

i hate that. i want to be able to die by going off a cliff. games, especially of the previous generation, did that crap all the time. kotor anyone.

THAT is an invisible wall that impacts gameplay.

i dont like them either, however, i probably didnt make it clear, some games, should have the "block me from fall of doom:

TES and Dark sould for example, should never have this

What invisible walls are everyone whining about in New Vegas that weren't in F3 as well? I replayed it a couple of months ago and don't really recall being unable to go through a place unless it was too high to jump over or was too incline.

lol! exactly.

i'm sure it has to do with rubble, ravines, cliffs, mountains and freakin train tunnels.

nothing to do with actual railroading.

some feel being able to get to that high, lone, outcrop of rock and 360-view your pc is worthwhile, over, actual forced gameplay.

Do you know how long it took me to realize I couldn't enter the inner part of the capital wasteland except through the subway tunnels? I walked around almost the whole thing wondering "Why the hell is this corner of the map cut off?"

FO3 had invisible walls too you know.(There were several places you could jump up the rubble and try to move forward but it wouldn't let you.)

and, when you finally entered, your first thought should have been: i'm an idiot. not, i hate invisible walls.

I never ONCE ever experienced invisible walls.. And guess what... I sneaked passed the cadavers with nothing but a shovel.. got chances Knife... then sneaked pass the death claws... EASY... now Fallout 3 and those "rubble piles of invisible walls + 2" those were redundant.

i go straight to vegas, as well, and get the implants.

the blind deathclaw route can also be a way to get around.

Morrowind definitely didn't let you go wherever you wanted whenever you wanted. Some quests, dungeons, wilderness would simply be too much for low leveled characters to handle. Only after the introduction of Oblivion's overzealous level scaling did this become possible. Further, level scaling was introduced specifically to deal with a lack of challenge at high levels in Morrowind. The goal was to provide consistent challenge for strong characters. This had the unfortunate side effect of making things relatively easy for all characters. To suggest that this has always been Beth's intended design is, I think, somewhat disingenuous.

Sorry, but New Vegas was a travesty of world building. While quite good from a character-building perspective, the world was Ugly, small and static. While Skyrim may railroad character choice, New Vegas railroads exploration, and if you can't see that, you're blind.

why? because you can die?

new vegas doesn't railroad exploration at all.

to think it does means you feel enemies that will wipe you off their butt is wrong.

and, besides, like many of us already know: we get by the cazadores and deathclaws anyways. where is my railroaded map?

I don't play hardcoe mode, and I don't eat/drink/sleep/etc in either game. You don't have to do any of that stuff in New Vegas, either. it's purely optional. Nice, when games have options, isn't it? Unlike Skryim. Next argument...

The issue is not whether New Vegas railroads exploration or not. The issue is that people look at New Vegas and extrapolate from there, claiming that for a world to be "truly open", one must be able to go anywhere at any time. That anything less, any iota of restriction (even a soft restriction), means the world is not really open.

again, I got out of the start town and wandered through most of the map randomly doing side quests and entered Freeside without problem. care to cite specific examples of railroading?

as for the world, it wasn't the most detailed, yes. but it was actually more varied in it's tile set than FO3. in NV you had: generic badlands, Red Canyon area, NCR Camps, Some green areas, New Vegas area and the strip.

In FO3 you had... Generic completely uninhabited badlands and the inner city ruins. that's it.

You shouldn't compare it with Skyrim.. that's a totally different setting. You compare it with Bethesda's game in the same setting; FO3.

That could be interesting...

lol! right on the mark.

as if the open world of new vegas deserves some kind of negative asterisk besides it because you can't go 'everywhere.'

as if the 'invisible walls' of vegas or f3 make the games inferior to tes.

lol.

though, of course, good gamers get by em anyways. hoo rah.

new vegas had invisible walls, as well as mechanics in place to keep you from going certain directions too soon, examples:

-Deathclaws at the quary:
as you start the game and head to the main road you have north and south directions, south are easy to beat powder gangers, north are death claws. and death claws even have massive DM so that any of the weak starting weapons cant really hurt them.

-Shape of the map:
is set up around a giant circle "O" with new vegas at the top. and the game very gently shoves you around this circle, with events set up along they way knowing wich way you are going.
*police station with bandits, heading south:
*NCR border with NPC's that ask you to check out the town to the east, heading east:
*bandit ambush on the road, bandits hiding behind buildings because they know wich direction you are coming from, moving east:
*introduction to the legion, moving east:
*traders heading north on a major highway, heading north:
*town with some sidequests, heading north:
*small ruined town with set up seige with some of the people that attacked you in the begining of the game, the conclusion of wich directs you north to new vegas proper.

and there are invisible walls. Bethesda does a good job of placing a mountain or rubble in your way that is impassible, or if your clever letting you bypass possible roadblocks. New Vegas, while i loved it, i could tell somebody else designed the world, i did run into actual invisible walls (the death claw quarry for one, aproach it from the starter town and you will find them.